Mortar spotters

[witchbottles]

The problem exists with other HIP situations...
I try to stare at different places of the map.
Now, after a moment, an opponent will have some idea where the mortaring is coming from, anyway.

ok scen allows 1 sqd equiv and any SW set up with it to be HIP. you deploy the sqd to 2 HS. one HIPs in the treeline with LOS across to the other side of the plain or city block or whatever. The other mans the mtr in an out of LOS location adj hex to the spotter where the mtr is capable of firing from ( won't work in dense jungle, etc.). They BOTH remain HIP as the Mtr fires again and again. Of course, it won;t take too long to triangulate, just as it doesn't take too long to triangulate a HIP OBA spotter with a field phone, but the effects will get off 90% of the time before the enemy finds the location and does something about it.

Put you 50* Mtrs on the interior rooftops of the back factory in RB, and the spotters on the rooftop edges, all HIP, across all that large debris / gully field at lvl 2. F#$%^&G beautiful setup , if you're the Russians.enemy finds you, dm the mtrs, pack em down the back door exits to the ground street level headed towards the river / Commissar's House and relocate!

Even better, do the HIP fire trick with 60* mtrs and IR rounds at night in KGP!.
( yeah, he MIGHT get to a posit where'd you'd have to lay a GF counter sooner or later, but in the meantime, lots of blind enemy with no one to shoot at!).

Read about someone doing a right nice WP smokescreen this way with the 3 60s and a spotter instead of an OBA mission. Its on my "to try" list in my La Glieze CG underway!

KRL, Jon H

 

[sarfs]

Doug Sheppard has told about playing VotG where his opponent had six mortars with a spotter. With rate, you can expect nine shots per fire phase. That corresponds to a crit every other turn.

 

[Brian W]

Read about someone doing a right nice WP smokescreen this way with the 3 60s and a spotter instead of an OBA mission. Its on my "to try" list in my La Glieze CG underway!

Isn't the number of mortars a unit spots for limited to the number of SW it can use? I.e., a half squad/SMC can only spot for one mortar at a time, but a squad can spot for two?

 

[Robin Reeve]

ok scen allows 1 sqd equiv and any SW set up with it to be HIP. you deploy the sqd to 2 HS. one HIPs in the treeline with LOS across to the other side of the plain or city block or whatever. The other mans the mtr in an out of LOS location adj hex to the spotter where the mtr is capable of firing from ( won't work in dense jungle, etc.). They BOTH remain HIP as the Mtr fires again and again. Of course, it won;t take too long to triangulate, just as it doesn't take too long to triangulate a HIP OBA spotter with a field phone, but the effects will get off 90% of the time before the enemy finds the location and does something about it.

Put you 50* Mtrs on the interior rooftops of the back factory in RB, and the spotters on the rooftop edges, all HIP, across all that large debris / gully field at lvl 2. F#$%^&G beautiful setup , if you're the Russians.enemy finds you, dm the mtrs, pack em down the back door exits to the ground street level headed towards the river / Commissar's House and relocate!

Even better, do the HIP fire trick with 60* mtrs and IR rounds at night in KGP!.
( yeah, he MIGHT get to a posit where'd you'd have to lay a GF counter sooner or later, but in the meantime, lots of blind enemy with no one to shoot at!).

Read about someone doing a right nice WP smokescreen this way with the 3 60s and a spotter instead of an OBA mission. Its on my "to try" list in my La Glieze CG underway!

KRL, Jon H

I agree with you.
I was just explaining that the managing of HIP mortars and spotters was quite like the managing of other types of HIP units.
I use the HIP mortar and spotter quite often.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Isn't the number of mortars a unit spots for limited to the number of SW it can use? I.e., a half squad/SMC can only spot for one mortar at a time, but a squad can spot for two?

No such limit.
C9.3 : "... One Good Order Personnel unit in the same or adjacent hex to a mortar (regardless of vertical level distance and LOS) can be a Spotter (^) for any mortar(s) in one hex (be it the same or an adjacent hex)".

 

[witchbottles]

Doug Sheppard has told about playing VotG where his opponent had six mortars with a spotter. With rate, you can expect nine shots per fire phase. That corresponds to a crit every other turn.

I think too many times the ASL player "writes off" the punkin chunkers in his OoB. Besides the obvious bennies as yet another short odds AFV threat, to match the short range BAZ and PFs, besides the obvious fire into the woods and "clear em out!" with airburst, comes the use of spotted fire. As you note statistically speaking, a nice group of these guys in a CG like RB or AbtF, with a well placed spotter, can wreak serious results on the enemy who thought he was out of LOS.I'd take the 8-3's ( CH vs a stone bldg) over 2+3's or even 2-1's of an airburst, any day of the week. Certainly at least as good odds as firing more than 2 fire missions if you OBA'd the 3 60s in an american OoB. Mortars on the board give you one tool OBA is not, FLEXIBILITY. More than 2 mortars means you'll be shooting for the entire game, not until you draw 2 reds, even with breakdowns. and onboard mtrs can make use of Boresighting in order to cover the flank or rear approach areas if being set up for spotted fire. OBA is not nearly as useful, however, it does have 1 obvious advantage doing that, and that is no ammo depletion. If I REALLY needed some serious smokescreens, Id go OBA , otherwise, "put em on the map".

my $.02

Jon H

 

[Brian W]

No such limit.
C9.3 : "... One Good Order Personnel unit in the same or adjacent hex to a mortar (regardless of vertical level distance and LOS) can be a Spotter (^) for any mortar(s) in one hex (be it the same or an adjacent hex)".

I was referring to the next sentence in the rule, about SW usage for inherent firepower. I don't think the intention of the rule is for a SMC to be able to direct 20 mortars in one fire phase. I may be wrong about that, since ASL has nothing to do with reality, but I have always applied SW limits to spotted mortar fire per that sentence.

Here's an odd Q&A that supports you, but with great restrictions (how one would ever figure out that you should play it per this Q&A via the ASLRB is beyond me):

C9.3 May a leader or MMC spot for 3 or more
mortars in one fire phase, or may a squad fire its
inherent FP and spot for two or more mortars?
Does it matter in which order the shots are taken
and/or alternated? May a squad spot for mortars
in different hexes or mortars firing at different
targets?
A. Yes to both, but only if the mortars are all in
the same hex and firing at the same target. No,
although any acquisition gained with the mortars
will be lost when inherent FP is used. No, each
such mortar must have its own spotter. [Compil6]

 

[rdw5150]

OK so a spotter can spot for as many mtrs in the same hex as long as they all fire at the same target?

Thanks!

Peace

roger

 

[olli]

Well this thread has given me some new things to think of for sure!!!!

 

[Brian W]

OK so a spotter can spot for as many mtrs in the same hex as long as they all fire at the same target?

That's the way I read the Q&A.

 

[jrv]

OK so a spotter can spot for as many mtrs in the same hex as long as they all fire at the same target?

The question came up recently about what happens when the target is eliminated before all the MTRs have the chance to fire. Are they free to fire elsewhere? As I recall, the answer was undecided.

JR

 

[Robin Reeve]

Are they free to fire elsewhere? As I recall, the answer was undecided.

Link to the recent thread about that question : http://forums.gamesquad.com/showthread.php?101695-Spotting-for-2-mortars&highlight=spotter

 

[TopT]

Any Personnel (Infantry/PRC-not Inherent Crews) can Spot for MTRs, not just leaders. I almost always look for opportunities to use Spotted Fire....especially with both Spotter and MTR HIP. The TH and ROF penalties are not significant when compared to the benefits of Spotted Fire, IMHO.

In this example, where does it state that the HIP Spotter does not need to be revealed?

 

[Robin Reeve]

Spotting is not a concealment loss activity and the HIP rules don't specify any exception that would make a spotter be revealed (or placed under concealment counter).
Strangely, the "HIP" reference in the Index points to "Spotters [C9.3]", but C9.3 does not evoke HIP nor concealment...

 

[klasmalmstrom]

...Strangely, the "HIP" reference in the Index points to "Spotters [C9.3]", but C9.3 does not evoke HIP nor concealment...

True, but C9.3 does have a note that the Spotter needs to be recorded it is HIP - "...If the Spotter is hidden, it must be recorded as a Spotter..." - probably why the Index entry point to C9.3.

 

[Sand Bar Bill]

A little more to the right... a little more... now down a little. That's it. Perfect.



Sorry, I was just having my back scratched, now back to the thread at hand.

 

[Carln0130]

Been using them quite frequently in a game of ABTF, well a CG actually. The Brits have several light mortars with smoke and tons of leaders early on, so it is a good opportunity to attempt thier use, given all the buildings around and the ability of the leaders in the mortars hex to modify the shots, over the buildings and into the streets for smoke.

 

[MajorDomo]

SP164 - Tanks But No Tanks

The polish 81mm Brandt mortar is a prime candidate for spotted fire with the observer in the steeple and the mortar HIP.

Rich

 

[RollTide]

Spotting is not a concealment loss activity and the HIP rules don't specify any exception that would make a spotter be revealed (or placed under concealment counter).
Strangely, the "HIP" reference in the Index points to "Spotters [C9.3]", but C9.3 does not evoke HIP nor concealment...

C9.3 Spotters: ... PFPh/DFPh and marked with an appropriate fire counter for having used a SW during that phase.

So a HIP/concealed spotter is not marked with say an Opportunity Fire marker but is secretly using it?

 

[von Marwitz]

C9.3 Spotters: ... PFPh/DFPh and marked with an appropriate fire counter for having used a SW during that phase.

So a HIP/concealed spotter is not marked with say an Opportunity Fire marker but is secretly using it?

By the letter of the rules, spotting counts as the "use of a SW" and thus the Spotter needs to be marked by the appropriate fire counter.

A Spotter is often set up HIP and also the MTR which he directs is out of LOS of the enemy.
Placing counters on these units would reduce this tactic ad absurdum.

In practice, I have almost always seen this situation played that by mutual agreement no fire counters are placed on board. Some keep track of the counters outside of the playing area. As usually, there is not more than one HIP MTR/Spotter around, it is easy enough to just remember if they have fired or not.

The above described solution is the one I would encourage to use. Talk it over with your opponent before the game is set up in scenarios in which such a situation might arise.

von Marwitz