BFP 3 Discussion Points

[Delirium]

Sweet - I very much like early war, and would love to see more of the Poles, Dutch and Belgians on DW boards.

 

[Spencer Armstrong]

I dont like to let out too much information, but BFP 4 will not be desert. Sorry to possibly disappoint. Unless something drastic happens BFP 4 will be something like BFP 3 but on the Allied Minors. Fewer counters, more boards.

Chas

You heard it here first, kids! Allied minors...interesting, timing makes sense. Counters, that makes sense, DB already has tons of odd. More boards, YAY!

S

 

[Arlecchino]

Yeah we steal some info from Chas! Anyway we don't need a DTO module yet... better wait for HL reprint.

Whoa allied minor year this one... so many scenario to play.

 

[M.Koch]

Haven´t got my copy yet, but...

Boards: There can´t be enough boards. I saw the new boards from AP6 at ASLOK and they were fantastic, by design and by the new
concept how they link up with other boards. The idea of DW boards is great, as long as they are usable one without the other.

Counters: I like the plane counters,they look nice, but i don´t know if i ever use them. So, from my point of view they are chrome, as long
as they are not needed in the historicall context of a HSASL module. Also i don´t know if it makes sense to pimp up the air support rules the way you guys
do ?!
The Tank counters, with Cullin device and FT´s, on the other hand are absolutely fantastic and do close a gap...
For the terrain couters...I wait until i have them.

 

[Chas]

Note that the Allied Minor project will not be released in 2010. Way too much work to do, and I wouldnt go out on a limb to say it would be produced in 2011, but who knows. I may have also spoken too early. Depending on how some things come together and we decide to publish, something else may be BFP 4.

Chas

 

[rglesINDY]

So now we have it all figured out! BFP will be Allied minors......Or, it won't ge Allied Minors.

It's always comforting to know exactly where we stand. :thumup:

 

[Spencer Armstrong]

Mine came today! So now I feel like I can opine more informedly here.

-DW Map concept.

Already said it, but yes, Yes, YES. The more pseudo-geomorphic options, the better. Love it.

-Ground Attack Aircraft

I kinda feel "meh" about these, but every time I read your designer notes, you win me over, Chas, so I'm up to "why not?" The ones included sure are shiny!

-Terrain Counters

Pretty indifferent. I don't like a ton of immobile counters, I actually prefer overlays. If they can be made transparent, that'll be even better.

I do love the add'l info counters, as others have mentioned.

BFP3 on the whole is as glorious as everyone said. My lone complaint is that I wish it was packaged a little better. The arrangement is right: Magazines and counter sheets outside of cards and loose sheets and mapboards, but my corners were badly bent, even slightly marring the boards. There has also been damage on other BFP products I've bought for similar reasons. Considering the cost, a couple bucks more for a heavy Ziploc-type bag would have been a welcome change.

S

 

[Honza]

My lone complaint is that I wish it was packaged a little better. The arrangement is right: Magazines and counter sheets outside of cards and loose sheets and mapboards, but my corners were badly bent, even slightly marring the boards. There has also been damage on other BFP products I've bought for similar reasons. Considering the cost, a couple bucks more for a heavy Ziploc-type bag would have been a welcome change.

Got to agree with that. Better packaging to protect the product in the post would be a good idea. My corners were bent a bit too on my module. At over $100 the product deserves protection in the post.

 

[ASLSARGE]

Mine came today! So now I feel like I can opine more informedly here.

<SNIP>

BFP3 on the whole is as glorious as everyone said. My lone complaint is that I wish it was packaged a little better. The arrangement is right: Magazines and counter sheets outside of cards and loose sheets and mapboards, but my corners were badly bent, even slightly marring the boards. There has also been damage on other BFP products I've bought for similar reasons. Considering the cost, a couple bucks more for a heavy Ziploc-type bag would have been a welcome change.

S

Got to agree with that. Better packaging to protect the product in the post would be a good idea. My corners were bent a bit too on my module. At over $100 the product deserves protection in the post.

Guys - notify Sam Tyson about your packaging issues. I'm sure he can get you taken care of. Also might want to place a note for your postal carrier, threatening great physical harm for any physical damage incurred. Several years ago the place I lived had had a very indifferent postal carrier. Everything got shoved into the mailbox. Letters were torn, manila envelopes had bent corners, small packages were smashed. After asking him nicely several times to show more care, I gave him a box of homemade cookies one Christmas and said "thank you for all you do". The reverse psychology worked cuz I never had a problem after that. Of course, two years later we moved again and had the same issues with the new postal carrier. Figures! I'm thinking about "showing" him my Colt 45 semi-auto and describing what a 230 grain full metal jacket bullet does upon exiting a human body. At least I'll get his attention.

 

[Spencer Armstrong]

Guys - notify Sam Tyson about your packaging issues. I'm sure he can get you taken care of. Also might want to place a note for your postal carrier, threatening great physical harm for any physical damage incurred. Several years ago the place I lived had had a very indifferent postal carrier. Everything got shoved into the mailbox. Letters were torn, manila envelopes had bent corners, small packages were smashed. After asking him nicely several times to show more care, I gave him a box of homemade cookies one Christmas and said "thank you for all you do". The reverse psychology worked cuz I never had a problem after that. Of course, two years later we moved again and had the same issues with the new postal carrier. Figures! I'm thinking about "showing" him my Colt 45 semi-auto and describing what a 230 grain full metal jacket bullet does upon exiting a human body. At least I'll get his attention.

I hear what you're saying, but this isn't anything I'd return a product over. It's not unusable. If it was, I have no doubt BFP would make it right. The damage, while annoying, is mostly confined to the counter sheets. Even so, the counters themselves are fine. As for the magazine's corner being bent, well, I'm going to carry it around and read it anyway, so it's no big deal to me. Even the maps just seem to have a little bit of wear, it's nothing horrible, they'll hopefully earn that wear. I buy this stuff to use it, I'm not a collector in the preserve-unpunched sense. It's just that with shrinkwrap and a USPS Priority envelope, some wear and tear is going to happen in transit. A little more protection would reduce that. In fact, I think a fair piece of it is the shrinkwrap, not the shipping, which is why I suggested a Ziploc-type bag. I bought my others from Alex Key and they came in boxes with other stuff, all padded up and still had bendage from the shrinkwrap. I do want to be clear, I'm not making a stink, I'm very pleased with my purchase, I'm just making a suggestion for future improvement.

S

 

[regularjoe]

Note that the Allied Minor project will not be released in 2010. Way too much work to do, and I wouldnt go out on a limb to say it would be produced in 2011, but who knows. I may have also spoken too early. Depending on how some things come together and we decide to publish, something else may be BFP 4.

Chas

So we're resetting the DB reprint countdown clock!

 

[MLaPanzer]

Guys - notify Sam Tyson about your packaging issues. I'm sure he can get you taken care of. Also might want to place a note for your postal carrier, threatening great physical harm for any physical damage incurred. Several years ago the place I lived had had a very indifferent postal carrier. Everything got shoved into the mailbox. Letters were torn, manila envelopes had bent corners, small packages were smashed. After asking him nicely several times to show more care, I gave him a box of homemade cookies one Christmas and said "thank you for all you do". The reverse psychology worked cuz I never had a problem after that. Of course, two years later we moved again and had the same issues with the new postal carrier. Figures! I'm thinking about "showing" him my Colt 45 semi-auto and describing what a 230 grain full metal jacket bullet does upon exiting a human body. At least I'll get his attention.

I would pay the extra 5 bucks to have it shipped UPS. They can't shove it in the mail box. I had the same issue fortunately I have a larger mailbox.
My normal carrier is a good guy and doesn't do the shoving into the box. But that day he wasn't on his route.

 

[Count Belisarius]

I'll second the comments re packaging. A Global Priority envelope isn't really enough to protect it for it's transatlantic journey. Mine was delivered to work so didn't have to endure the efforts of a postman jamming it through my letterbox. But even so, all four corners of the envelope were torn through and the corners of the package all dinted. The corners of the maps have all taken some damage, nothing to make me send them back (too much effort) but enough to spoil the feel of a 'new' product. Last month I commented on packaging as had just had a bad experience with another delivery. Chas said:

Standard data is for us to appropriately label the packaging. Unfortunately not everyone pays attention to this.

No sign of any labelling on mine. And there was evidence that 'someone' had tried to bend it!

Seeing as I'm here I may as well carry on...with my few little niggles...

First impressions of product? Bloody good! Quality as expected from BFP and looking forward to playing some of the many scenarios - maybe even this year!

Counters - hadn't really noticed the white core and it's not a deal breaker for me. If they're re-done I would likely buy them...but for one thing. Some have so much info crammed on them even right up to the edges that clipping them is likely to be a no go. I can't really recall other counters I've had this problem with. Annoying as I either spoil the counters by losing some info, or don't clip which makes them stand out from the rest. And I'll ignore any comments about clipping spoiling counters anyway!

Maps - although I like the maps the colours are a little, I don't know, bland...sterile even. Don't get me wrong. I like the maps and look forward to losing on them. But they just lack something for me...

Other than that, I can't fault it. It wasn't cheap but I'm sure I'll get my money's worth out of it. When I can find the time...

Cheers

Andy

 

[Steve E7]

Where are the rules for the Rear MG of some of the BFP aircraft found?

 

[ASLSARGE]

Where are the rules for the Rear MG of some of the BFP aircraft found?

B&J Chapter H Notes...Section 2.3 - "All applicable Chapter E rules apply to Japanese Ground Attack Aircraft. They are considered a DB 42 Stuka only for purposes of Dogfight Resolutions per E7.221."

E7.221 <SNIP> If a FB rolls an original Aerial Combat DR of 11 while attacking a Stuka, it is assumed to have been hit by the Stuka's rear gunner. If the colored dr of the Original 11 DR was a 6, it is eliminated; otherwise it is Damaged. Aerial Combat DR are subject to the following cumulative DRM: (see chart in section E7.221 of ASLRB.)

Rear MG only comes into play if conducting Aerial Dogfights. Hope that helps.

 

[BruceK]

I'll second the comments re packaging. A Global Priority envelope isn't really enough to protect it for it's transatlantic journey. Mine was delivered to work so didn't have to endure the efforts of a postman jamming it through my letterbox. But even so, all four corners of the envelope were torn through and the corners of the package all dinted. The corners of the maps have all taken some damage, nothing to make me send them back (too much effort) but enough to spoil the feel of a 'new' product. Last month I commented on packaging as had just had a bad experience with another delivery. Chas said:

No sign of any labelling on mine. And there was evidence that 'someone' had tried to bend it!

Seeing as I'm here I may as well carry on...with my few little niggles...

First impressions of product? Bloody good! Quality as expected from BFP and looking forward to playing some of the many scenarios - maybe even this year!

Counters - hadn't really noticed the white core and it's not a deal breaker for me. If they're re-done I would likely buy them...but for one thing. Some have so much info crammed on them even right up to the edges that clipping them is likely to be a no go. I can't really recall other counters I've had this problem with. Annoying as I either spoil the counters by losing some info, or don't clip which makes them stand out from the rest. And I'll ignore any comments about clipping spoiling counters anyway!

Maps - although I like the maps the colours are a little, I don't know, bland...sterile even. Don't get me wrong. I like the maps and look forward to losing on them. But they just lack something for me...

Other than that, I can't fault it. It wasn't cheap but I'm sure I'll get my money's worth out of it. When I can find the time...

Cheers

Andy

Coming out of Lurk Mode to address the issue of the B&J map colors.

The colors for the stone building artwork ended up looking a bit washed out, unfortunately. I'm still learning the ropes,so there has been some trial and error. I felt the ITR building artwork came out a bit too dark for my taste. I tried to compensate for that with the BtB maps, but felt some of the depictions were too washed out. I tried a few different things with these maps but some of them didn't translate from the screen to the printed map. That's the trick. The same goes for some of the wooden buildings- details not translating to print. Hopefully these issues are not deal breakers. I do promise to try for better results next time.

Bruce

 

[sswann]

I have no problems with the building colors. Much better that having a dark brown that is almost indistinguishable from dark gray.

 

[Count Belisarius]

Coming out of Lurk Mode to address the issue of the B&J map colors.

The colors for the stone building artwork ended up looking a bit washed out, unfortunately. I'm still learning the ropes,so there has been some trial and error. I felt the ITR building artwork came out a bit too dark for my taste. I tried to compensate for that with the BtB maps, but felt some of the depictions were too washed out. I tried a few different things with these maps but some of them didn't translate from the screen to the printed map. That's the trick. The same goes for some of the wooden buildings- details not translating to print. Hopefully these issues are not deal breakers. I do promise to try for better results next time.

Bruce

Thanks for the feedback Bruce. The maps are far from deal breakers! I do know how difficult it can be translating from screen to print and it's good to see the urge to fine tune and improve. Will look forward to the next lot!

Andy

 

[fwheel73]

Coming out of Lurk Mode to address the issue of the B&J map colors.

The colors for the stone building artwork ended up looking a bit washed out, unfortunately. I'm still learning the ropes,so there has been some trial and error. I felt the ITR building artwork came out a bit too dark for my taste. I tried to compensate for that with the BtB maps, but felt some of the depictions were too washed out. I tried a few different things with these maps but some of them didn't translate from the screen to the printed map. That's the trick. The same goes for some of the wooden buildings- details not translating to print. Hopefully these issues are not deal breakers. I do promise to try for better results next time.

Bruce

I have no problems with the building colors. Much better that having a dark brown that is almost indistinguishable from dark gray.

Thanks for the feedback Bruce. The maps are far from deal breakers! I do know how difficult it can be translating from screen to print and it's good to see the urge to fine tune and improve. Will look forward to the next lot!

Andy

Not argumenative....

I noticed a comment that the maps seemed sterile, washed out or something. I agree with Steve that they look really good. There may be some slight imperfections with a color or a shade but I find those locations hard to find.... maybe there might be some examples. If it would not be too much trouble I'd be glad to be able to see, with some map coordinates, some of the sterile locations..... where are the off color stone buildings and the "too dark" wooden ones.

It might be true that I am a poor judge of art, but I can't see of any critical things on the maps..... so what areas might be improved on future maps? As a laudable goal... how do you improve what was produced?.... I am impressed with the product now.

BFP 3 is good stuff!! Keep up the good work!:thumup:

Best regards,:salute:
John

 

[Kevin Kenneally]

If anyone does NOT want their BFP3 maps, I will gladly accept them from whoever wishes to release them.

I am still awaiting the BFP3 to get to my location; no rush. I am teaching the G-kids Math already "4column, -1.