The Ethics of Scenarios With SS

King Scott

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I like the scenario but is playing the SS side unethical?.

Am I a bad person for doing so?


Scott
Absolutely nothing wrong with playing the SS...or any other "nationality" in ASL...because it is a *GAME*. It is not a political statement, or an affirmation of ideologies, or a glorification...it is a game, plain and simple, nothing more. I really do feel a degree of pitty for those people who are unable to understand that.

Yes...you are a bad person...but that is only because you are an MP. :p:laugh::clown:

Semper Fi!
Scott
 

AZslim

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Considering the the whole war was an atrocity of munumental proportions, picking a amall part of it to refuse to game is even crazier than than gaming it in th first place.
 

Delirium

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Absolutely nothing wrong with playing the SS...or any other "nationality" in ASL...because it is a *GAME*. It is not a political statement, or an affirmation of ideologies, or a glorificatio
I agree. I'm happy to play the SS, or the Japanese, or the Wehrmacht for that matter, elements of which enthusiastically engaged in extensive war crimes.

However, the fetishisation of certain unit symbols, counter colours etc. does make me uncomfortable, especially if taken to a particular level. As it could be regarded as beginning to approach an affirmation of an ideology, or admiration, or applause for some of the actions of those units.

To be clear, it's not about the counters themselves, it's about people's attitudes to the counters. I'm comfortable with SS runes on MMP's counters. I would not be comfortable with an opponent drooling over black SS counters with a swastika in the top right hand corner.

I think there are boundaries to good taste, and that we should play our game informed by an appreciation of the horror of war in general, and the specific horrors committed during WWII.
 
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Gunner Scott

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Hi ya-

SS counters do not bother me in the least, be it SS runes or skulls but personally, I use the Blue SS counters. Granted the Black SS counters do look intimidating on the game board but the blue SS are so much more easier to read. As for glorifying the SS, I have only heard of two people would dress up or wear SS items at ASL tourny's and that was years ago. Have not seen anything like that in some time, so ya, there are a few nut jobs out there that dig all the SS represent but thankfully, they are very few if that nowadays.

Scott
 

RobZagnut

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When I play with the SS they're gonna be black, because they just look cooler on the board.

It's the same reason why I make my own QRDC and laminate them. The same reason I lovingly put all my scenarios in page protectors and binders. The same reason why I have a custom built wooden dice tower and HIP unit hidder-outer thingie. The same reason I drink good beer when I'm playing. The same reason why my counters are spray painted with clear, flat matte finish. The same reason why I spend hours clipping the flash off the counters. The same reason why I don't want the Finns to be grey. The same reason I hide the pink/violet Wolkey 8-1 counter in shame.

If you're gonna spend ungodly amounts of money on a game, you might as well look cool doing it.

And when you're getting your butt kicked you can still think, "At least my stuff is looking good while it's happening. He can steal my pride, but he never take THAT away from me."
 
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AZslim

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When I play with the SS they're gonna be black, because they just look cooler on the board.

It's the same reason why I make my own QRDC and laminate them. The same reason I lovingly put all my scenarios in page protectors and binders. The same reason why I have a custom built wooden dice tower and HIP unit hidder-outer thingie. The same reason I drink good beer when I'm playing. The same reason why my counters are spray painted with clear, flat matte finish. The same reason why I spend hours clipping the flash off the counters. The same reason why I don't want the Finns to be grey. The same reason I hide the pink/violet Wolkey 8-1 counter in shame.

If you're gonna spend ungodly amounts of money on a game, you might as well look cool doing it.

And when you're getting your butt kicked you can still think, "At least my stuff is looking good while it's happening. He can steal my pride, but he never take THAT away from me."
Cool and ASL don't go together in the same sentence. I understand getting anal bout your hobby, but the only people impressed by your stuff is going to be another one of us complete geeks.
 

olli

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Cool and ASL don't go together in the same sentence. I understand getting anal bout your hobby, but the only people impressed by your stuff is going to be another one of us complete geeks.
YEP!!
for sure................
 

RobZagnut

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Cool and ASL don't go together in the same sentence. I understand getting anal bout your hobby, but the only people impressed by your stuff is going to be another one of us complete geeks.
Exactly. No one else matters.

But, no one is going to out geeky this geek in cool geekiness.
 

Sand Bar Bill

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Hi ya-

SS counters do not bother me in the least, be it SS runes or skulls but personally, I use the Blue SS counters. Granted the Black SS counters do look intimidating on the game board but the blue SS are so much more easier to read. As for glorifying the SS, I have only heard of two people would dress up or wear SS items at ASL tourny's
and that was years ago. Have not seen anything like that in some time, so ya, there are a few nut jobs out there that dig all the SS represent but thankfully, they are very few if that nowadays.

Scott
First tournament I ever saw of ASL was part of a larger gaming tournament. It was the late 1990's. One of the few ASL players there was wearing essentially an Afrika Corps uniform. It did make ASL look a little nutty and not in a cute way.
 

Paul M. Weir

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I will play a scenario involving the SS without much qualms, unless my opponent has a picture of Hitler over his chair and has the Horst Wessel Lied blaring in the background.

What might be carefully considered is whether there is a disproportionate number of scenarios, even scenario packs with the SS. Players will naturally have a stronger interest in the better equipped or elite units than the 1043rd Static Frontier Battalion (wheelchair). But even allowing for that factor there does seem an over representation of the SS.

Just from what I can remember: KGP I & II, Leibstandarte 1-4, Prinz Eugen, FTC 3, Nordic Twilight, of those 9, 5 follow a specific unit. For non-SS I can think of AP 3, Grossdeutschland 1-2 and Hell on Wheels as being the closest equivalent. CH's BdF might also fall into a SS themed pack, but I think the emphasis was more on the defenders rather than the attackers, ditto ABtF. I do not include the recent CoS as it has a mix of German forces, ditto the pending FB. There are undoubtedly many more that are not readily available this side of the pond. What about, say, British 7th Armoured Division or Soviet 1st Guards Tank Brigade?
 

Gunner Scott

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Hi ya-

Kinda makes ya wonder if there are more Waffen-SS scenarios then anything else.


Scott
 

Fort

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Depends on whether they are bootlegged copies or originals. ;)
 

Kevin Kenneally

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I will play a scenario involving the SS without much qualms, unless my opponent has a picture of Hitler over his chair and has the Horst Wessel Lied blaring in the background.

What might be carefully considered is whether there is a disproportionate number of scenarios, even scenario packs with the SS. Players will naturally have a stronger interest in the better equipped or elite units than the 1043rd Static Frontier Battalion (wheelchair). But even allowing for that factor there does seem an over representation of the SS.

Just from what I can remember: KGP I & II, Leibstandarte 1-4, Prinz Eugen, FTC 3, Nordic Twilight, of those 9, 5 follow a specific unit. For non-SS I can think of AP 3, Grossdeutschland 1-2 and Hell on Wheels as being the closest equivalent. CH's BdF might also fall into a SS themed pack, but I think the emphasis was more on the defenders rather than the attackers, ditto ABtF. I do not include the recent CoS as it has a mix of German forces, ditto the pending FB. There are undoubtedly many more that are not readily available this side of the pond. What about, say, British 7th Armoured Division or Soviet 1st Guards Tank Brigade?
Paul,

You give us such good information. The Soviet 1st Guards Tank Brigade is a 'new' unit for me to research.

I have read many different accounts of battles by Russian units, but they are really 'politicalized' to the point of being very difficult to create scenarios from.

There is a web site, in Russian, that covers King Tigers fighting IS-IIs, (it does have English translation). I will try and find it again and post here for some to read; it is NOT SS as an opponent, but very good information.
 

Srynerson

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Just from what I can remember: KGP I & II, Leibstandarte 1-4, Prinz Eugen, FTC 3, Nordic Twilight, of those 9, 5 follow a specific unit. For non-SS I can think of AP 3, Grossdeutschland 1-2 and Hell on Wheels as being the closest equivalent. CH's BdF might also fall into a SS themed pack, but I think the emphasis was more on the defenders rather than the attackers, ditto ABtF. I do not include the recent CoS as it has a mix of German forces, ditto the pending FB. There are undoubtedly many more that are not readily available this side of the pond. What about, say, British 7th Armoured Division or Soviet 1st Guards Tank Brigade?
For non-SS, I believe you could add Rally Point vol. 5 (entirely devoted to following the U.S. 45th Infantry Division).
 

Paul M. Weir

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The Soviet 1st Guards Tank Brigade is a 'new' unit for me to research.
The 1st Guards Tank Brigade was originally named 4th Tank Brigade under Katukov who gave the Germans such trouble at Mtsensk. It participated in many of the important actions of the war right until the Berlin operation, as part of 8th Guards Mechanised Corps, 1 Guards Tank Army (still under Katukov!). I just picked it out as an example of a good unit that has, for the main, been ignored.
For non-SS, I believe you could add Rally Point vol. 5 (entirely devoted to following the U.S. 45th Infantry Division).
Yes, though I have it, I had forgotten about that one. Thanks for reminding me. Some times I would forget my head if it was not soldered on! :eek:

I have a vague memory of a series of scenarios based on 6th SS 'Nord', though I could be mixing up with one of the many books I have read. :nuts:

Even just with the German forces, there are few packs or scenario series that follow the trail of non-SS units. LC's GD 1 & 2 is one of the few. Many years ago, there was supposed to be a HG pack, I think some of the scenarios came out in Journals after that project died. 6th Panzer would have been an interesting subject as it started as 1st Light Division with Pz 35(t) and was in the war from right from start to finish.

Now that I mentioned it, a revised Mtsensk would be a worthy subject for a small scenario pack. This has an interesting mix of troops including NKVD (not just the NKVD led militia that appeared in VotG) and 85mm AA guns as AT. The book "T-34 The Legendary Weapon" has a section on Mtsensk that has thrown a new light on that battle. Katukov has been quoted as saying that he even had some BT-2, not just BT-5/7, T-34 and KV-1.
 

Robin Reeve

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Am I a bad person for doing so?
Do you need somebody else to answer that question?
The fact that you ask the question could help you find the answer : if you conscience was apeased, you would not ask.

Of course, you also could simply be trolling.
But you are above such medicore motivations, aren't you?
 
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