Repair SSR

[Gunner Scott]

Hi-

Thinking about including this SSR in the Back in Black SS pack and want to make sure it is understandable by you the unwashed masses of this forum:

Special Repair Rules:
Any time during the Opponents Movement Phase or the
Defensive Fire Phase and unless marked with a First Fire
Counter, the Defending player may make one repair attempt
for each malfunctioned MA or Gun as if the attempt was
preformed during the Rally Phase[EXC: Failure to Repair
an MA and / or Gun Marks that unit with a Final fire
counter]

Scott

 

[alanp]

Seems like this SSR is meant to allow a repair attempt instead of D1/DFF. Is this allowed even without LOS to enemy unit? (is it just like D1F in that you have to see an enemy moving?)
this probably won't come up too often--malf'd weapon+DF opportunity; can you add another repair attempt somewhere else? Make malf'ing less likely to begin with?

 

[KhandidGamera]

Here's carrying the idea further and adding to it:

Move weapon repair and rally out of the rally phase - you repair/rally when an action offensive/defensive desired, applying same rules as present: phasing player can do one self-rally without a leader.

Would make the game much more moment to moment.

I would make repair/rally a concealed activity too if in concealment terrain - how the heck do you know if someone repaired a MMG or are back up in building or woods until they fire?

Rally phase still there for other activities, maybe changes name to "Prep Phase".

 

[brian s]

Scott,

You may want to add 'friendly' in front of Defensive Fire Phase. I'm sure that's what you mean but it would eliminate any possibility of thinking you meant the opponent's DFPh. Also, it seems to be implied but does a successful repair attempt result in placement of a First Fire counter?

Out of curiosity, are you trying to reflect a particular situation that is unique to this scenario or is this SSR designed to accomplish something else?

Brian

 

[Markdv5208]

I actually like...

I actually like the SSR that had something to the following

After a 12 ie MALF is rolled, the owning player rolls a die.
1,2 MALF normal
3,4 Out of that type of Ammo
5, 6 NE

I want to say it's in the WCW packet somewhere as an SSR....

I'm not sure that I buy an additional repair roll otherwise.

What's the rationale? That SS troops would be more likely to have the ammo?
The training? I guess I'd have to have a rationale to consider it ie like HOBs use of crew counters for MMGs/HMGs/60mmMTR et al.

Mark DV
Ada, MI

 

[SamB]

So, this is an "extra" repair atttempt? I assume so. I have no problem with that, because it's also an "extra" chance to break it permanently.

Also, what about SW repair? Did you intentionally limit this to MA and Guns? (By the way there are lots of vehicles with a MG for a MA).

 

[DerBlitzer]

I actually like the SSR that had something to the following

After a 12 ie MALF is rolled, the owning player rolls a die.
1,2 MALF normal
3,4 Out of that type of Ammo
5, 6 NE

Mark DV
Ada, MI

Yes, I like this repair rule, too, except that I would make the owning player's dr SECRET. As I've said elsewhere, there's no reason this information should be divulged to the enemy except when the weapon is captured.

As for the SSR, is the rule supposed to cover the better ability of the SS to be experts with their weapons?

 

[Treadhead]

Thinking about including this SSR...

I am more interested in the design rationale for this SSR.

It seems like you are only trying to change a rule for change sake, or perhaps experiment or tinker with a rally concept.

What is the reason?

On the face of it, I don't like such changes simply for their own sake. It just seems like so much tinkering with the game design. I.e., you are adding the SSR because there is something about the game system you don't like, rather than creating the SSR to accommodate some historical aspect of the action.

Bruce

 

[Sparafucil3]

Hi-

Thinking about including this SSR in the Back in Black SS pack and want to make sure it is understandable by you the unwashed masses of this forum:

Special Repair Rules:
Any time during the Opponents Movement Phase or the
Defensive Fire Phase and unless marked with a First Fire
Counter, the Defending player may make one repair attempt
for each malfunctioned MA or Gun as if the attempt was
preformed during the Rally Phase[EXC: Failure to Repair
an MA and / or Gun Marks that unit with a Final fire
counter]

Scott

I think this is what you are trying to get at:
Contrary to A9.72, a manned gun/MA that is malfunctioning and not marked with a fire counter may make a repair roll (as per A9.72) once per friendly fire phase if otherwise able to fire. If repaired, the gun is able to immediately attack normally. If not repaired, the gun and its manning crew/MA are marked with the appropriate fire counter. [[Any gun/MA repaired in this manner is considered to have its ROF lowered by 2 for the turn in which it is repaired. Any gun/MA whose ROF is subsequently reduced to less than zero is marked Intesive Fired in addition to being marked with a phase appropriate fire marker.]]

You might need to tighten the language some. The ROF stuff at the end accounts for a ROF penalty. You could make the ROF penalty for the turn a 1 if you wanted to account for more ammo available (maybe Hans tripped on his way to the gun with the round). The idea behind the < 0 is to account for something which is generally slow to fire already. Since it is slow to fire, repairing took so much time you barely got off a shot in the time limit. Being marked Intensive Fired so it only gets the one shot for that turn [EXC: OVR Protection] would account for that idea. -- jim

 

[Blackcloud6]

am more interested in the design rationale for this SSR.

It seems like you are only trying to change a rule for change sake, or perhaps experiment or tinker with a rally concept.

What is the reason?

On the face of it, I don't like such changes simply for their own sake. It just seems like so much tinkering with the game design. I.e., you are adding the SSR because there is something about the game system you don't like, rather than creating the SSR to accommodate some historical aspect of the action.

I agree with this 100%.

 

[trevpr1]

I actually like the SSR that had something to the following

After a 12 ie MALF is rolled, the owning player rolls a die.
1,2 MALF normal
3,4 Out of that type of Ammo
5, 6 NE

I want to say it's in the WCW packet somewhere as an SSR....

I'm not sure that I buy an additional repair roll otherwise.

What's the rationale? That SS troops would be more likely to have the ammo?
The training? I guess I'd have to have a rationale to consider it ie like HOBs use of crew counters for MMGs/HMGs/60mmMTR et al.

Mark DV
Ada, MI

I'm pretty sure there was a rule like this in the old SL gamette series.

 

[countermanCX]

I'd suggest you don't arse around w/ the repair rules at all, and 86 this proposed SSR immediately. When're ya gonna stop w/ this, will malfed SW & broken Personnel also get a 2nd bite on their RPh rolls during D1F?

 

[Larry]

I actually have thought that repair attempts should get a labor counter, to a max of -2. A 6 would still elim the weapon but up to a 3 would repair it (hmg would not get a labor counter and mmg up to -1). This would encourage the repair attempts of MA of AFV and reflect the synergy of repeated attempts to unjam the sucker, e.g. aperbag:

 

[trevpr1]

I also hope this isn't some wird generic SSR for this pack only. The HOB SS packs suffered fgreatlly from their attempts to make us use crews for MGs and other SW and this spoiled the whole pack.

The game system is fine. Make scenarios that fit it.

 

[Gunner Scott]

Hi all-

Some great suggestions and idea's. Why am I doing an SSR like this? To add a little fog of war to the cardboard battle field. Now with this SSR inplace, approaching a Gun or AFV with a Melf counter can not be as safe as it used to be

IE

"Look jack, that Panther's MA has a melf counter on it, now we can just ride up and blow the stupid tank away"

Obviously, I will need to reword the SSR to tighten the language up a bit, Like yes, the AFV or Gun in question does not have to have a LOS to an enemy unit to repair its MA/ Gun. This SSR does not apply to SW.

Scott

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I actually like the SSR that had something to the following

After a 12 ie MALF is rolled, the owning player rolls a die.
1,2 MALF normal
3,4 Out of that type of Ammo
5, 6 NE

I want to say it's in the WCW packet somewhere as an SSR....

Yes, it was in "WCW4 - Cat Becomes Mouse" if I remember correctly.

When I played it (as the Germans) Wittman's Tiger Gunner rolled 6,6 on the very first TH DR of the game and of course followed that up by a subsequent dr of 1.

I think the SSR was something like if you rolled 6,6 on a non-IF shot with special ammo, you rolled a subsequent dr 1= Malf., 2-6= Just no ammo.
I'm not 100% sure though.

 

[Reepicheep]

I actually have thought that repair attempts should get a labor counter, to a max of -2. A 6 would still elim the weapon but up to a 3 would repair it (hmg would not get a labor counter and mmg up to -1). This would encourage the repair attempts of MA of AFV and reflect the synergy of repeated attempts to unjam the sucker, e.g. aperbag:

That would have been a good idea, had the writers of the rulebook thought of it! (I suspect too late to see it in the RB now!)

 

[Gunner Scott]

Any time during the Opponents Movement Phase and in LOS of an enemy unit, the Defending player may make one repair attempt for each malfunctioned MA or Gun as if the attempt was preformed during the Rally Phase[EXC: Failure to Repair an MA and / or Gun Marks that unit with a First fire counter]. This attempt is a concealment loss activity.

So for example:
It is the Axis movement phase, the Axis player see's that the Russian T-44's MA is melfunctioned. The T-44's player, who has LOS to several Axis units may attempt to repair his MA at the start of the Axis Movement or anytime during the Axis movement phase as long as there is an enemy unit in the Russian AFV's LOS.

Gun Duel's:
If the Axis AFV moves in LOS of the Russian AFV with a Melf'ed MA and declares a Gun Duel, the Russian AFV may still make a repair attempt prior to rosolving the Gun Duel.

BTW, this SSR applies to both the SS and their opponents in this scenario pack. Will this SSR see any use? 75% of the time, I dont think so but it does add an element of uncertainty for both sides as well as a nifty little piece of chrome to this pack of scenarios.


Scott

 

[Ole Boe]

Some great suggestions and idea's. Why am I doing an SSR like this? To add a little fog of war to the cardboard battle field. Now with this SSR inplace, approaching a Gun or AFV with a Melf counter can not be as safe as it used to be

...in other words (Bruce Bakken's actually) "you are adding the SSR because there is something about the game system you don't like"

I fully agree with Bruce that adding SSR just because you don't like the way the game system works, is a bad thing.

 

[Gunner Scott]

...in other words (Bruce Bakken's actually) "you are adding the SSR because there is something about the game system you don't like"

I fully agree with Bruce that adding SSR just because you don't like the way the game system works, is a bad thing.

Hi Ole-

No that is not the reason I am doing this type of SSR. It is because I want this pack of scenarios to be unique. I think the current set of Repair rules in the ASLRB are ok, could use a little more work, like having MA's repair on a 1to 3 stead of a 1. That sort of stuff.

Scott