ASL never was developed, would you still be playing SL?

Would you have played SL if ASL never was developed


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von Marwitz

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Just curious, what did you find burdensome about programmed instruction?

An inordinate number of threads I get involved in end up with alcohol being a major topic of discussion. Sorry ?
Actually, I first bought SL in preference over ASL because of the programmed instruction.

However, I quickly realized that if one would delve deeper into SL with the intention of using all its four modules that it would become a PITA to find rules references later, because the programmed instructions entailed a lack of structure in the body of the SL rules.

With ASL, it was exactly the other way around: You had all the rules perfectly structured [cough, cough - but altogether it is true...], while the issue for the initiate was to find those within this intimidating tome that really mattered at the beginning.

von Marwitz
 

Vic Provost

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I was playing SL before ASL even had a rulebook and still would have even if ASL had not come along.

Me and Tom played SL-GI after being Panzerblitz fans before that.

I go back to early Avalon Hill games in the 1960s, the hobby has been a part of my life for over 50 years, Vic.
 

The Purist

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I believe I would have stayed with the SL system as Tactical wargames were my interest. I doubt if I would maintained the same interest/immersion level that I have for ASL as the overall system was a bit clunky. I believe the system would have cleaned itself up somewhat and certainly the rules would have been combined and cleaned up as well with additional modules (almost a sure thing if ASL had not come along).
Had ASL not come along I suspect the next module (Pacific?) would have probably come along with a v2 of the RB. The issues with the evolution of the rules were known and it was decided to 'start over' rather than 'fix' the rules.

In hindsight that was the correct decision.
 

aiabx

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I'd probably still play it on occasion. But I'll be honest, planting d fire counters restricts the size and scope of playable scenarios.
 

Actionjick

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I'd probably still play it on occasion. But I'll be honest, planting d fire counters restricts the size and scope of playable scenarios.
Please elaborate if you could.
Thanks
 

Spencer Armstrong

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Mayyyybe? As it was, we found it unplayably tangled to even figure out which rules were valid by the middle of CoD. Now, if somebody had taken the four rulebooks, consolidated them to one without the replaced sections and then maybe fixed some things... Oh. Wait.

So, no. SL had collapsed under its own weight. ASL was legitimately needed.
 

Actionjick

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SL would still be a girlfriend in my little black book. But just one of many.

Whereas I liked ASL enough to put a ring on it.

Big difference!!! :love::love::love:
Your High School ring? With yarn wrapped around it? ?
Lol, sorry.

Once again a nicely put thought.

I had no idea you were such a Casanova!?
 

Robin Reeve

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I still would be playing SL-COI-COD-GI.
I would design new scenarios to add variety.
And I would play many other games - as I also do besides ASL.
 

aiabx

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Please elaborate if you could.
Thanks
If I recall correctly (and it's been 35 years since I played, so I might be wrong), when your opponent moves into a location where they could potentially be shot, you mark that location with a tracking marker and they move on. Then in the D Fire phase, you call units back to those tracked locations and shoot them. If you have large forces on both sides and a lot of movement, you may be compelled to put a lot of tracking markers down, which is a short track to a lot of confusion and playing errors. Shooting as you go is simpler and it's the immediacy of it that makes ASL orders of magnitude more fun than SL.
 

Actionjick

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If I recall correctly (and it's been 35 years since I played, so I might be wrong), when your opponent moves into a location where they could potentially be shot, you mark that location with a tracking marker and they move on. Then in the D Fire phase, you call units back to those tracked locations and shoot them. If you have large forces on both sides and a lot of movement, you may be compelled to put a lot of tracking markers down, which is a short track to a lot of confusion and playing errors. Shooting as you go is simpler and it's the immediacy of it that makes ASL orders of magnitude more fun than SL.
That's what I thought you meant and I agree. Probably the weakest part of SL IMHO.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Sort of an offshoot of the SL/ASL/ASLSK thread.

I would have. Never found SL to be so flawed that I would have given it up.
Enjoyed the original series and owned them all. I wasn't that upset by ASL - I read the ASL Clinic article where they sold us on the new system, and said "there's a lot less crapping around in the rules." I especially liked the revised defensive fire routines - much more elegant than the SL "tracking" counters.

I got the ASLRB for Christmas in 1986 and there was temporary disappointment when I realized I couldn't do anything with it. But Boxing Day in Canada is shopping day and so I took the bus armed with mom's credit card and an admonition "don't tell your father" across town to the Sentry Box and returned with Beyond Valor. The gleam of acquisition outweighed any disappointment - really though, my parents had paid for SL through GI, and then ASL/BV so I personally wasn't out anything but time.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Had ASL not come along I suspect the next module (Pacific?) would have probably come along with a v2 of the RB.
I believe the Italians and the desert were slated to be next, along with a historical module based on the fighting in Warsaw.
 

Eagle4ty

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I believe the Italians and the desert were slated to be next, along with a historical module based on the fighting in Warsaw.
I seem to remember the same but having gone through a few of the old Generals I can't seem to find where I picked up that idea. Interesting to note that the first few ASL Annuals they still included a few SL style scenarios.
 

Actionjick

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I seem to remember the same but having gone through a few of the old Generals I can't seem to find where I picked up that idea. Interesting to note that the first few ASL Annuals they still included a few SL style scenarios.
I think On All Fronts, Terry Treadway (?) was working on the Marines and PTO but that would have been a TPP.
 

dlazov

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I think On All Fronts, Terry Treadway (?) was working on the Marines and PTO but that would have been a TPP.
that is correct and we worked with Wild Bill Wilder on the PTO stuff. I do believe I still have the originals some place.
 

Honza

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I'd probably still play it on occasion. But I'll be honest, planting d fire counters restricts the size and scope of playable scenarios.
There always was the optional DF rule which we used all the time. It was at the back of the SL rulebook.
 

The Purist

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I was playing SL before ASL even had a rulebook and still would have even if ASL had not come along.

Me and Tom played SL-GI after being Panzerblitz fans before that.

I go back to early Avalon Hill games in the 1960s, the hobby has been a part of my life for over 50 years, Vic.
Panzer Leader and Panzer Blitz were my staples before 1978 and finding SL on the shelf. I couldn't tell you how many times I did Operation Goodwood, Bulge Counterattack or Prokohorovka. The pieces were actually wearing out.
 

Actionjick

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Panzer Leader and Panzer Blitz were my staples before 1978 and finding SL on the shelf. I couldn't tell you how many times I did Operation Goodwood, Bulge Counterattack or Prokohorovka. The pieces were actually wearing out.
Was looking at my worn, torn and taped GI rules for the Command and Control option on a previous post. All kinds of scribbled notes, things to point out to Fish, questions and way too much underlining of rules. All that and we still had fun.

Something to remember is that SL only had a seven year run and look at all that it accomplished in that time. ASL has been around five times that long and still has problems. If you doubt that look at all the rules questions on this forum.

Kudos to the SL developers and playtesters. I'll always have the deepest admiration and gratitude for what you did.
 
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