Any comments on MMP'S pre order list

[Chas Argent]

Again using VotG as an example...the wait was 2 years...whether they put it up on Pre-order this month or two years ago (like they did) the wait would be the same.

How do you figure that? Isn't the issue how long it takes to get an announced products off the list and into print?

 

[James Taylor]

How do you figure that? Isn't the issue how long it takes to get an announced products off the list and into print?

Welll... I'm certainly no expert... but as I've been following these forums and threads on MMP production for about a year now, I think the crux of the matter is just that new ASL product does not come out fast enough.

Don't get ME wrong. I've got so much unplayed ASL stuff I'm not in that much of a hurry for MMP to release tons of new stuff. (VotG would be nice, as Steve Dennis and I have been delaying our next CG for it).

Whether MMP puts product up for P# or not is probably not the heart of things. There will always be the question, "What's next, MMP?" And when any hint of an answer is given to that the expectation in the community will be set and the whining for its release will begin.

I think what the community wants to see is some sort of a regular cycle to ASL product development. I'm not sure this is realistic given the maturity of the game, but I think it is what would placate the masses. There will, of course, always be whining... regardless of what rate of production MMP achieves.

BTW: I don't think that ASLSK beyond #3 can be counted in "ASL product development". NOT a political statement, but I don't think it will placate the masses.

JT

 

[Tater]

How do you figure that? Isn't the issue how long it takes to get an announced products off the list and into print?

The list is pretty much meaningless...the question is why does it take 2+ years to get a product out? Whether you put it on the list the day you decide to pursue the project...and we wait 2+ years...or, you wait 2+ years before you put it on the list...it is still 2+ years waiting.

When the item does/doesn't go on the list is merely a public relations issue/decision...the 2+ years waiting is the real issue that an ASL player would be concerned with...at least this ASL player.

 

[Khill]

I think what the community wants to see is some sort of a regular cycle to ASL product development. JT

Good point. I would like to see ASL stuff come out throughout the year rather than in great heaps at once. But then again, at this point, I'll take what I can get

 

[Tater]

Good point. I would like to see ASL stuff come out throughout the year rather than in great heaps at once. But then again, at this point, I'll take what I can get

This would pretty much be the "point" we are all at...and the timing for when a product is put on the PO list doesn't change a d@mn thing for any of us. The only thing it does is maybe...MAYBE...reduce the grief factor for MMP.

 

[Hexagoner]

The list is pretty much meaningless...the question is why does it take 2+ years to get a product out? Whether you put it on the list the day you decide to pursue the project...and we wait 2+ years...or, you wait 2+ years before you put it on the list...it is still 2+ years waiting.

When the item does/doesn't go on the list is merely a public relations issue/decision...the 2+ years waiting is the real issue that an ASL player would be concerned with...at least this ASL player.

I really have to agree with Tate here. I don't think the real issue is time from preorder to shipping, the issue is time from submitting a complete product to shipping. Where you stick the preorder date between those two events doesn't necessarily affect the time from "design complete" to shipping.

I fully understand why MMP can't just concentrate on ASL products, due to the future uncertainty and cost with the Hasbro license. They have to have some independent products of their own. But also given the large demand for ASL products and "can't miss" sales opportunity with everything ASL right now, it is hard to understand why there aren't more dedicated resources working the ASL product pipeline. A possible answer is there ARE more dedicated resources now (e.g. Charlie, Keith, Derek), so ASL product cycle times will improve going forward. But I can't say I have actually read that.

hex

 

[Tater]

I really have to agree with Tate here.

Ooooooohhhhhh...you have gone and done it now. I am sure you are being added to several lists even as I post this...:clown:

 

[Pitman]

I think its better they hold off on ASL products until they are ready to be sent to the printers. It sounds like both Gamers and IGS games are ready to go to the printers once they hit their preorders while ASL is still in design when the preorders are hit. It makes ASL games sit on the preorder list long after they hit their numbers while the other lines appear to drop off the list faster, at least giving the impression that other games are holding up the ASL line.

I think it is even better if ASL products were actually produced regularly, so people would not be looking longingly for new ASL products to come on the pre-order list. I'd like to see a new ASL product (major or minor) quarterly. I don't think that's unreasonable, given the size of the ASL community.

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

OK, maybe my understanding of the Pre-Order system was wrong...or maybe the policy has changed since I last read it. But if the MMP belief is that ASL will go like hotcakes why the hell does it still take show incredibly long for an ASL product to come out?

Brian tends to post more and with more elaboration on CSW; as to why? Who can say for sure?

Yeah, but all that does is change the perception...does it actually speed up how long it takes to get given ASL products turned? No...it doesn't...we will still be waiting just as long for ASL products...they will still be coming out just as slow...they just won't be up for pre-order as long. For example, take VotG, we would still have waited years for the product...but it would have only been on the Pre-Order page for a couple of months before shipping. So, other than the perception (i.e., press) what would have changed?

I don't think it's so much the perception, as the amount of work necessary to even place a game (any game...) on preorder. If the ASL material moves closer to the more palatable Gamers model, we'd all be harping less and playing more.

 

[RobZagnut]

>Good point. I would like to see ASL stuff come out throughout the year rather than in great heaps at once. But then again, at this point, I'll take what I can get

The only way to get ASL stuff to come out on a regular basis is to hire The Gamers guys to work on the ASL stuff.

 

[styrk]

>Good point. I would like to see ASL stuff come out throughout the year rather than in great heaps at once. But then again, at this point, I'll take what I can get

The only way to get ASL stuff to come out on a regular basis is to hire The Gamers guys to work on the ASL stuff.

Thanks
:vsign::vsign::vsign::toast::clap:

 

[ASL Couple]

FWIW, the part that's bugged me is how MMP's practice doesn't exactly match their printed philosophy.

From the MMP Preorder FAQ:

"We take a title and develop it and playtest it as usual. Assuming it doesn't turn out to be unworkable, eventually we are satisfied that the project has finished the design/development phase and is ready for publication. At this time, some (if not all) of the layout of the project will be finished as well. We will then . . . post that game as available for preorder on our website.

<snipped>

Once the title has received the necessary number of preorders, we send it off to the printer and start the production cycle. There may be a small delay in this phase if the layout of the title is not yet complete,"

That doesn't seem to match the reality of VotG.

 

[jwb3]

MMP has made the decision to get ASL products much closer to being "ready for prime time" before putting them on the list.

:clap:

Instead of continuing the pattern of post it-watch it make preorder number in days-finish the game we're going to try get the game mostly finished - set it for preorder - print and ship. The former was based on the early paradigm that assumed the ASL stuff would take a long time to hit. We are attempting to live by what the preorder page says.

:clap: :clap:

We now have three people - Charlie Kibler, Derek Spurlock, and myself - working on ASL layout besides Brian. This *should* speed up the process.

:clap: :clap: :clap:... and three cheers for Charlie!

All this sounds good to me, and the explanation is appreciated.


John

Word of the Day:

psy·cho·sis - noun - Female sibling of a certain Gamesquad Forum member.

 

[kdalton]

psy·cho·sis - noun - Female sibling of a certain Gamesquad Forum member.

NOW THAT IS FUNNY.

 

[DSK665]

I have no problem with the current pre-order system, I have pretty much every single game on pre-order now. When a game is done I will get it, there is nothing I can do about it that will speed it up . There are alot more important things to worry about in this world then when a certain game will come out. Thanks MMP for putting out great games.

 

[daveramsey]

I have no problem with the current pre-order system, I have pretty much every single game on pre-order now. When a game is done I will get it, there is nothing I can do about it that will speed it up . There are alot more important things to worry about in this world then when a certain game will come out. Thanks MMP for putting out great games.

Absolutely!

Pre-ordering for me just means I've ordered the thing and I'll definitely be receiving VoTG when it hits the UK.

However, consider this a public service message: given it's been over a year now since most of us pre-ordered, if your card has expired, or been lost/stolen - get in touch with the MMP guys (mmpproblems@cablespeed.com) to let them know about it otherwise the chances are you won't get anything when it is finally released. No email, no warning, no product!

 

[Steven Pleva]

The counter size increase prevents utilisation (or, at the very least, hampers) across the 15 extant games, mostly amongst system counters. There were rumours (I've no recollection as to the founded/unfounded nature of them at this point) that the new system counters were not going to be compatible with prior CWB fare. The counters, in keeping with the developers' predilection for flashy over functional, are a departure from the system norm.

I think making the units 5/8" and keeping the informational counters 1/2" is a good idea. Not sure the 4 maps is a good idea.

I agree with Roger, when stuff sits on the P# list for so long, I lose interest. Now I just buy it if/when it comes out...

Steve

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

I think making the units 5/8" and keeping the informational counters 1/2" is a good idea. Not sure the 4 maps is a good idea.

Steve

I agree that the size differential isn't all that big a deal, but somewhere it was floated that the system counters wouldn't be 'compatible' with CWB. Now, I cannot say in what context, they wouldn't be, if it's only size, as you mention it isn't a big deal, but if the combat system is changed that may require new markers. Of course, that would be 'incompatible' with CWB, so I'll presume that not to be the case.

I do find it worrisome that this is being done outside the normal CWB channel(s) along with these little pearls of wisdom from BV2 principles: (go to the Barren Victory 2 specific folder on CSW for the proper context of the following)

from Adam Starkweather:

And completely new art - so your old CWB counters won't work here...but again, it is still early...and anyway, as always, vote with your wallet if you end up not liking what we do here.

also:

Don't like, don't buy.

from Mark Mahaffey (game artist):

I'll echo Adam's don't like/don't buy comment.

and, responding to a CWBer asking the game not stray too far from the series norm:

If recreating the look is so easy and you want it so desperately, feel free to make your own when the time comes.

:crosseye::nervous::hmmm:​

 

[Kevin Kenneally]

Wow

Hey Chas,

Who's the "Hottie" with the "Mammaries"?


:clown: :cheeky:

 

[Chas Argent]

Michelle Ryan, the new Bionic Woman.