Are the dice that MMP provides in Beyond Valor acceptable to use when playing ASL?
I don't know for Albany. But of course they should be.
I am convinced that all this talk about the precision is really a phantom debate.
First, who of all the people claiming that their standard-issue BV dice are bad have actually tested them?
Who of you who are now reading this has done it? Be honest with yourselves.
If you have not done it, then what are you talking about?
Second, and more importantly: What we are talking about is the impact of the
difference of the results of precision dice compared to normal dice. Precision dice will be a bit more true than regular dice. But the difference of DR averages between the two is so marginal that its impact on the game is completely negligable compared to other factors such as the skill of play or what you roll in a specific situation (the proverbial boxcars for your vital 88 ATG).
See these interesting threads on how you can test your dice:
http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/how-to-test-your-balanced-dice-are-they-fair.101532/
Ah, and a while ago, as this same old discussion came up again as is does a few times each and every year, I did the work to go a bit more into detail by pitting Perfect Dice (i.e. better than any Precision Dice can be) vs. just a pair of standard BV dice which came in the box some decades ago.
A quote from here below:
http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/deck-dice-fair-dice.137761/page-2#post-1897811
So let me pose the question to you:
Have you ever made the test to establish what the difference of the bell curves are when comparing any (low production process) set of dice as found in any of MMP's boxed core modules and any set of your precision dice based on a sample of 1000 DRs? Or has anyone else?
I do not want to tease you or anyone else. I am honestly interested in establishing what extent of difference we are talking about. If we have some data available, then our arguments either way may gain or lose some weight.
To put facts behind my words, I did the work. I am not into math, so I leave it to the number-crunchers to figure out the results that can be pulled from the data:
Sample of 1000 DRs of BV3 dice rolled the way I usually do (no dice tower, dice cup on desk):
DR number of times my dice number of times expected with "perfect" die
2 24 27.77777777
3 46 55.55555555
4 79 83.33333333
5 107 111.111111111
6 138 138.888888888
7 159 166.666666666
8 141 138.888888888
9 125 111.111111111
10 80 83.3333333333
11 72 55.5555555555
12 23 27.7777777777
My DR average in 1000 rolls is 7099, the "perfect" expected DR average would be 7000.
I believe up to now, nobody considers whining about the dice or is convinced that the injustice of it all would warrant the
mandatory requirement of precision dice.
From here on, please, math-gurus, correct me if I have screwed up somewhere. As abovementioned, I am not into math.
Emiprical variance for my dice would be:
24 * (2-7.099)² +
46 * (3-7.099)² +
49 * (4-7.099)² +
107 * (5-7.099)² +
138 * (6-7.099)² +
159 * (7-7.099)² +
141 * (8-7.099)² +
125 * (9-7.099)² +
80 * (10-7.099)² +
72 * (11-7.099)² +
23 * (12-7.099)² = 6199.82
6199.82 / 1000 (i.e. # of sample) = 6.19982 = Empirical variance for my dice @ a 1000 sample.
Now Empicial variance for "perfect" dice:
27.77 * (2-7)² +
55.55 * (3-7)² +
83.33 * (4-7)² +
111.11 * (5-7)² +
138.88 * (6-7)² +
166.66 * (7-7)² +
138.88 * (8-7)² +
111.11 * (9-7)² +
83.33 * (10-7)² +
55.55 * (11-7)² +
27.77 * (12-7)² = 5833.33
5833.33 / 1000 = 5,83333 = Empicical variance for "perfect" dice @ a 1000 sample.
Standard deviation would be the square root of
Empirical variance.
√6.19982 = 2.48994 is the Standard deviation for my dice @ a 1000 sample.
√5.83333 = 2.41523 is the Standard deviation for "perfect" dice @ a 1000 sample.
If I understand it correctly, this would mean that with my dice @ a 1000 sample, I can expect to roll
7099 +/- 2.48994% or in other words between 6998.26 and 7147.27.
"Perfect" dice @ a 1000 sample could expect to roll
7000 +/- 2.41523% or in other words between 6915.47 and 7084.53.
Well, so with my low production process dice my sample is exceeding the Standard Deviation of "perfect" dice by 14.5 pips in 1000 DRs (factual 7099 as opposed to 7084.53 what is within Standard Deviation for "perfect dice"). What a scandal. I am devastated.
Now granted,
worst that could conceivably be expected to happen to me within the range of the Standard deviation of "perfect" dice pitted against my low production process BV3 ones could be a
DR average of 6.916 against 7.147 in 1000 DRs to my disfavor.
I am crushed. Oh, the injustice of it. It must have turned the game against me. Seriously? I better not even comtemplate that
at the same time within expectations it could have optimally turned out to be a
DR average of 6.998 against 7.085 in 1000 DRs to my favor.
At this point, I find it very hard to understand people insisting upon precision dice making a
significant difference.
Have I just been lucky with the set of low production process dice of BV3?
Not impossible, but rather unlikely I would think. Everybody, please feel invited to provide your 1000 DR sample to broaden the database. And note that I have pitched my dice against "perfect" dice. Not against precision dice which will fall off against "perfect" dice somewhat.
So as a bottom line based on the above, I conclude that precision dice do not matter for the purposes of ASL. What they might matter for is to soothe superstition, the promise of more "security" and so on. They obviously calm the psyche of some. I perfectly fine with people who see the need to use precision dice for whatever reason.
But I cannot follow people that try to tell me using precision dice or not has
in itself any significant impact on the game and therefore their use should be made mandatory for tournaments etc. Even less I can accept people that allege dishonest motives if people do not use or decline their use.
DR average of 6.916 against 7.147 in 1000 DRs to my disfavor.
DR average of 6.998 against 7.085 in 1000 DRs to my favor.
I am convinced that the above differences are
not what usually decides tournaments.
It's the
differences of the skill levels of players that do which deviate at a greater extent as to allow for a
significant impact of the above DR average differences.
And it's
when you roll crap or superb that matters.
Cheers,
von Marwitz