Ortona

[Gunner Scott]

I think MMP is just trying to make the HASL playable with as little tedium as possible. And to be honest, do we really need another city fight HASL?

Scott

 

[samwat]

I think you mean QQ22. Yes, it is a stairway.

Very European--very cool . . .

 

[samwat]

I did a fair bit if playtesting on the older Ortona map and while the countryside was excellent, once you got into the city, the Germans got crushed in a very tedious fashion.
The city area was a solid mass of buildings with narrow streets so the Canadians assault moved concealed up to the defenders. If tgey fired the defenders list concealment if not tgey got "bumped" by a halfsquad tgen the main group advanced in for CZc with the -2 ambush modifier. Rinse and repeat.
The lack of roads meant you coukd not use firelanes to channel an attack although we did recommend a "firelane down narrow street" rule to combat this.
The lack of command and control rules meant the Canadian sweep forwards would be coordinated.
Although this map may look less like annitalian town I think it will play more like one.

Excellent points. All I've read about the battle is Mark Zuehlke's books, but from those I got the impression that the Germans were making it hard in their usual way, with MGs both ground (FL) and first level--and damn sure no AFV bypass.

Zuelhke gives the impression of a _lot_ of rubble: is the map set for the beginning of the battle, and rubble through play from there?

 

[samwat]

I think MMP is just trying to make the HASL playable with as little tedium as possible. And to be honest, do we really need another city fight HASL?

Scott

I'd love a cityfight with Commonwealth troops that isn't Arnhem. And cities are different from each other--Stalingrad shouldn't be the template for all city maps, though maybe the dynamics of urban ASL mean that it will be the template for most urban HASLs.

 

[Blackcloud6]

Me too, actually. MMP made this map from Jim's play test map. Perhaps the rules will need to restrict the bypass opportunities.

at the city museum made this reconstruction of how the city looked at the time of the battleView attachment 49119View attachment 49120

Instead of having rules to restrict bypass wouldn't it be better to have more rowhouse-like structures on the map?

 

[olli]

Instead of having rules to restrict bypass wouldn't it be better to have more rowhouse-like structures on the map?

That's what the previous version of the map had along with Narrow roads

 

[william.stoppel]

I think MMP is just trying to make the HASL playable with as little tedium as possible. And to be honest, do we really need another city fight HASL?

Scott

Of course we do Scott! What a silly question.

 

[Michael R]

That's what the previous version of the map had along with Narrow roads

Jean-Pierre Raymond is working with me on the Ortona development. He has an older play test map that I have seen once or twice. We had to use it to transcribe the stairways and rowhouse black bars to the new play test map. I do not remember it looking a lot more congested, but I will look again.

 

[Michael R]

at the city museum made this reconstruction of how the city looked at the time of the battleView attachment 49119View attachment 49120

Andrea,

Where can I find a lot of photos of that model?

 

[Honza]

Does anyone have a photo of the older version of the map? Numerous searches got me nowhere.

 

[von Marwitz]

Andrea,

Where can I find a lot of photos of that model?

Select pretty much any small italian rural town atop a hill and view them by Google Maps. They still look this way today.

von Marwitz

 

[Sand Bar Bill]

I've come up with an original title for the HASL :bandrum: ...

Onslaught to Ortona

Putting me in the credits is all the payment I need.

 

[olli]

I've come up with an original title for the HASL :bandrum: ...

Onslaught to Ortona

Putting me in the credits is all the payment I need.

Already got a title.

 

[RobZagnut]

Already got a title.

Yup, it's called Crucible of Ortona.

 

[Blackcloud6]

Hakkaa Ortona

 

[footsteps]

Yup, it's called Crucible of Ortona.

Blood & Ortona

Objective: Ortona

Ortona: Maple Leaf Vengeance

Ortona in Flames

Ortona Barricades

 

[Michael R]

I found this short video. Unfortunately, I cannot find the longer one that it indicates.

[video]https://youtu.be/MonsK4TFqkU[/video]

 

[George Kelln]

Blood & Ortona

Objective: Ortona

Ortona: Maple Leaf Vengeance

Ortona in Flames

Ortona Barricades

It was originally to be called: "Ortona, Little Stalingrad" after the newspaper head line

 

[Honza]

I found this short video. Unfortunately, I cannot find the longer one that it indicates.

[video]https://youtu.be/MonsK4TFqkU[/video]

That was helpful. I knew virtually nothing about this battle.

 

[andrea pagni]

Andrea,

Where can I find a lot of photos of that model?

I will look for more.. I also found this interesting site

http://www.battagliadiortona.it/it/via-della-memoria/40-i-luoghi-della-battaglia-di-ortona