Most dispicable attacks during WWII?

Kevin Kenneally

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All,

Watching the cable TV channel called "History Channel" and I now wonder what you consider the most dispicable attacks of WWII?

The British attack of teh French fleet ranks a very close second to this attack.....
 

Glennbo

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So many attacks, so little bandwidth.

I vote for when Churchill made fun of Stalin's arm.
 

Martin Mayers

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All,

Watching the cable TV channel called "History Channel" and I now wonder what you consider the most dispicable attacks of WWII?

The British attack of teh French fleet ranks a very close second to this attack.....
I'd put the Vichy French attack on their own Jewish population probably above it
Shithouses
 

Vinnie

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Interesting to note that the Jewish population in Italy got more protection from th fascist government than th Vichy one gave theirs.
 

Fort

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All,

Watching the cable TV channel called "History Channel" and I now wonder what you consider the most dispicable attacks of WWII?

The British attack of teh French fleet ranks a very close second to this attack.....
Neither the Pearl Harbor attack, nor the British attack on the French fleet even come close to the most despicable act of WWII...not even close.
 

Bob Holmstrom

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All,

Watching the cable TV channel called "History Channel" and I now wonder what you consider the most dispicable attacks of WWII?

The British attack of teh French fleet ranks a very close second to this attack.....
I find it difficult to find fault with Britain's actions against the Vichy fleet in the summer of 1940 considering the position they were in, fighting alone for their very existance.

While it almost assuredly could've been handled more deftly, i would never call it despicable.
 

aiabx

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Clearing the Warsaw Ghetto? The Rape of Nanjing? Any bombing deliberately made to break civilian morale?
At least the French fleet was a legitimate military target.
 

Kevin Kenneally

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At least the French fleet was a legitimate military target.
I do not agree with this statement, but that is my opinion.

Maybe the French agree with me.... But during a time of war, decisions will be made that in the future, some may think were not necessary......
 

Fort

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I do not agree with this statement, but that is my opinion.

Maybe the French agree with me.... But during a time of war, decisions will be made that in the future, some may think were not necessary......
You claim this was a 'close second'...what do you consider the most?

This Ultimatum/warning is pretty clear:

It is impossible for us, your comrades up to now, to allow your fine ships to fall into the power of the German enemy. We are determined to fight on until the end, and if we win, as we think we shall, we shall never forget that France was our Ally, that our interests are the same as hers, and that our common enemy is Germany. Should we conquer we solemnly declare that we shall restore the greatness and territory of France. For this purpose we must make sure that the best ships of the French Navy are not used against us by the common foe. In these circumstances, His Majesty's Government have instructed me to demand that the French Fleet now at Mers el Kebir and Oran shall act in accordance with one of the following alternatives;
(a) Sail with us and continue the fight until victory against the Germans.
(b) Sail with reduced crews under our control to a British port. The reduced crews would be repatriated at the earliest moment.
If either of these courses is adopted by you we will restore your ships to France at the conclusion of the war or pay full compensation if they are damaged meanwhile.
(c) Alternatively if you feel bound to stipulate that your ships should not be used against the Germans unless they break the Armistice, then sail them with us with reduced crews to some French port in the West Indies, Martinique for instance — where they can be demilitarised to our satisfaction, or perhaps be entrusted to the United States and remain safe until the end of the war, the crews being repatriated.
If you refuse these fair offers, I must with profound regret, require you to sink your ships within 6 hours.
Finally, failing the above, I have the orders from His Majesty's Government to use whatever force may be necessary to prevent your ships from falling into German hands.
 

Kevin Kenneally

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You claim this was a 'close second'...what do you consider the most?

This Ultimatum/warning is pretty clear:

It is impossible for us, your comrades up to now, to allow your fine ships to fall into the power of the German enemy. We are determined to fight on until the end, and if we win, as we think we shall, we shall never forget that France was our Ally, that our interests are the same as hers, and that our common enemy is Germany. Should we conquer we solemnly declare that we shall restore the greatness and territory of France. For this purpose we must make sure that the best ships of the French Navy are not used against us by the common foe. In these circumstances, His Majesty's Government have instructed me to demand that the French Fleet now at Mers el Kebir and Oran shall act in accordance with one of the following alternatives;
(a) Sail with us and continue the fight until victory against the Germans.
(b) Sail with reduced crews under our control to a British port. The reduced crews would be repatriated at the earliest moment.
If either of these courses is adopted by you we will restore your ships to France at the conclusion of the war or pay full compensation if they are damaged meanwhile.
(c) Alternatively if you feel bound to stipulate that your ships should not be used against the Germans unless they break the Armistice, then sail them with us with reduced crews to some French port in the West Indies, Martinique for instance — where they can be demilitarised to our satisfaction, or perhaps be entrusted to the United States and remain safe until the end of the war, the crews being repatriated.
If you refuse these fair offers, I must with profound regret, require you to sink your ships within 6 hours.
Finally, failing the above, I have the orders from His Majesty's Government to use whatever force may be necessary to prevent your ships from falling into German hands.
The attack on Pearl Harbor by the Japanese.

Third, would be the German bombing of Amsterdam during the open stages of the German Blitzkrieg on the western Powers.
 

Kevin Kenneally

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You claim this was a 'close second'...what do you consider the most?

This Ultimatum/warning is pretty clear:

It is impossible for us, your comrades up to now, to allow your fine ships to fall into the power of the German enemy. We are determined to fight on until the end, and if we win, as we think we shall, we shall never forget that France was our Ally, that our interests are the same as hers, and that our common enemy is Germany. Should we conquer we solemnly declare that we shall restore the greatness and territory of France. For this purpose we must make sure that the best ships of the French Navy are not used against us by the common foe. In these circumstances, His Majesty's Government have instructed me to demand that the French Fleet now at Mers el Kebir and Oran shall act in accordance with one of the following alternatives;
(a) Sail with us and continue the fight until victory against the Germans.
(b) Sail with reduced crews under our control to a British port. The reduced crews would be repatriated at the earliest moment.
If either of these courses is adopted by you we will restore your ships to France at the conclusion of the war or pay full compensation if they are damaged meanwhile.
(c) Alternatively if you feel bound to stipulate that your ships should not be used against the Germans unless they break the Armistice, then sail them with us with reduced crews to some French port in the West Indies, Martinique for instance — where they can be demilitarised to our satisfaction, or perhaps be entrusted to the United States and remain safe until the end of the war, the crews being repatriated.
If you refuse these fair offers, I must with profound regret, require you to sink your ships within 6 hours.
Finally, failing the above, I have the orders from His Majesty's Government to use whatever force may be necessary to prevent your ships from falling into German hands.
Notice the British wanted the French to sail away....

Did not see, 'scuttle' or 'sink' your warship to prevent the Germans from using your vessels any where on the ultimatum.

Thanks for the message Gary.
 

Fort

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Notice the British wanted the French to sail away....

Did not see, 'scuttle' or 'sink' your warship to prevent the Germans from using your vessels any where on the ultimatum.

Thanks for the message Gary.
What do you think the last two lines mean?

"If you refuse these fair offers, I must with profound regret, require you to sink your ships within 6 hours.
Finally, failing the above, I have the orders from His Majesty's Government to use whatever force may be necessary to prevent your ships from falling into German hands."

I mean, really, how much more did the British need to say to make it clear how they felt and what they were prepared to do?


Kevin,
I honestly would like to know what you consider the most despicable act of WWII?
Personally, I can think of at least a couple dozen off the top of my head that I would consider much more egregious than this.
 
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Kevin Kenneally

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What do you think the last two lines mean?

"If you refuse these fair offers, I must with profound regret, require you to sink your ships within 6 hours.
Finally, failing the above, I have the orders from His Majesty's Government to use whatever force may be necessary to prevent your ships from falling into German hands."

I mean, really, how much more did the British need to say to make it clear how they felt and what they were prepared to do?


Kevin,
I honestly would like to know what you consider the most despicable act of WWII?
Personally, I can think of at least a couple dozen off the top of my head that I would consider much more egregious than this.
Gary,

I did explain what I thought the most despicable act was; the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Also,

I failed to read the highlighted comments you have 'enlightened' me about.

There are a few "tactical" acts, like the eradication of Lidice, Czechoslovakia, but I consider that a "crime against humanity", not an act of war.....
 

Fort

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Gary,

I did explain what I thought the most despicable act was; the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Also,

I failed to read the highlighted comments you have 'enlightened' me about.

There are a few "tactical" acts, like the eradication of Lidice, Czechoslovakia, but I consider that a "crime against humanity", not an act of war.....
I find the German/Russian attack on Poland more despicable than either of the acts you mention.
Using British and Indian POWs for bayonet practice in Burma is pretty despicable.
Killing bedridden wounded in hospitals is not very nice.
Deliberately rocketing and bombing civilians is pretty harsh.
Using POWs for slave labor until they die is fairly unacceptable.
Bataan death march is just right out.
As mentioned above, the Rape of Nanking is not really a 'resume item'
There are just lines and lines of these kinds of things, that IMHO are much more despicable than the two you mentioned....ymmv.

Laters,
Fort
 

Kevin Kenneally

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I find the German/Russian attack on Poland more despicable than either of the acts you mention.
Using British and Indian POWs for bayonet practice in Burma is pretty despicable.
Killing bedridden wounded in hospitals is not very nice.
Deliberately rocketing and bombing civilians is pretty harsh.
Using POWs for slave labor until they die is fairly unacceptable.
Bataan death march is just right out.
As mentioned above, the Rape of Nanking is not really a 'resume item'
There are just lines and lines of these kinds of things, that IMHO are much more despicable than the two you mentioned....ymmv.

Laters,
Fort
Thanks Gary.

Did not know about the British and Indian PoWs......

Great to see that some NEVER forget what is wrong with the past.

"If we forget the past, we are destined to relive the past" .... (I do not know who said this first).
 

Fort

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Thanks Gary.

Did not know about the British and Indian PoWs......

Great to see that some NEVER forget what is wrong with the past.

"If we forget the past, we are destined to relive the past" .... (I do not know who said this first).
I've heard this attributed to George Santayana c1905:

"Those Who Forget the Lessons of History Are Doomed To Repeat It"

Forgiveness, always. Forget, never.
 

MajorDomo

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What would you say if one of the combatants eradicated a town of civilians, causing between 90,000 and 166,000 deaths?

Rich
 
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