Is this cheating

rdw5150

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If one does not call our Crew Survival (whether or not CVP are in play) when you know there is a possible crew survival..........

Is this cheating?

Do not want to start a flame war...... but to me, not calling out game rules like CS and SAN is cheating...........

But maybe I am being too tough.

Thoughts?

Roger
 

A_T_Great

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If one does not call our Crew Survival (whether or not CVP are in play) when you know there is a possible crew survival..........

Is this cheating?

Do not want to start a flame war...... but to me, not calling out game rules like CS and SAN is cheating...........

But maybe I am being too tough.

Thoughts?

Roger
If you are deliberately neglecting to roll for these things then yes, that is cheating. If you forgot, then it is not.
 

Actionjick

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If one does not call our Crew Survival (whether or not CVP are in play) when you know there is a possible crew survival..........

Is this cheating?

Do not want to start a flame war...... but to me, not calling out game rules like CS and SAN is cheating...........

But maybe I am being too tough.

Thoughts?

Roger
Are you talking about the owner of the crew deliberately not rolling for crew survival and not mentioning the possibility or his opponent not reminding him about the possibility?
 

Actionjick

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Are you talking about the owner of the crew deliberately not rolling for crew survival and not mentioning the possibility or his opponent not reminding him about the possibility?
The first instance I would consider outright cheating.

The second is more a matter of good sportsmanship and ethics. I like to see the game played correctly so would remind my opponent. Unless of course his lack of good sportsmanship deserves some instant karma. Even then I might still point it out just to show there is more to the game than just winning.
 

bendizoid

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If one does not call our Crew Survival (whether or not CVP are in play) when you know there is a possible crew survival..........

Is this cheating?

Do not want to start a flame war...... but to me, not calling out game rules like CS and SAN is cheating...........

But maybe I am being too tough.

Thoughts?

Roger
Both players are equally obligated to enforce and remind each other of all rules at all times.
Except start up DRs, those are different
 
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Robin Reeve

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What is complicated here is that nobody can read the mind of other people.
Omitting to enforce a rule can be deliberate or not.
A.2 exists precisely for that reason - or should one houserule that errors are cheating?

I would be very wary not to call my opponent a cheater on what I could suppose of his thoughts.

In my experience, I never have met an ASL player who cheated in any way.
I personally sometimes compute my DRMs wrong, forget a TC or MC in a complex sequence, etc.
I also can do my setup wrong - forgetting a unit or adding one to the OB.
Because I have more dumb moments than I would like.
Sometimes to my advantage, sometimes to my disadvantage.
I feel ashamed when this happens.
I would indeed hate that my opponent supposes that my errors and omissions are deliberate.

This all comes down to a relational dimension : what atmosphere presides your games?
Extreme competition, with no place for friendship?
Or playing for fun with the main objective to spend a good time with another ASL enthusiast?
 

TopT

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What am I missing?!?

If the owning player does not call out his CS, and CVP is not in effect, how is he cheating? He is the one that will NOT have that crew(s) that could grab a victory location. It is more of a question of why/ how you would do that? If you play vehicles, CS rolls are just second nature.

Agree on the other, that both players should call rules out stuff as it happens.
 

Jazz

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If one does not call our Crew Survival (whether or not CVP are in play) when you know there is a possible crew survival..........

Is this cheating?

Do not want to start a flame war...... but to me, not calling out game rules like CS and SAN is cheating...........

But maybe I am being too tough.

Thoughts?

Roger
Interesting question.

If your opponent really remembered and intentionally did not mention any rule situation it probably does fall into the category of cheating....at least it should. More importantly, it falls into the category of being way too concerned about chalking up a "W" instead of playing the game correctly for me to play them again.

Of course, if they honestly forgot, their only transgression is getting old.....
 

Robin Reeve

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Of course, if they honestly forgot, their only transgression is getting old.....
I would give priority to that attempt to read someone else's mind.
Being dumb would come as a second, non antinomic, option.
When I notice such an error, I suddenly feel young and smart. 😏
 

kcole4001

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In my opinion, I'd not really consider it cheating per se, but more of unsportsmanlike conduct.
It kind of depends on the situation I suppose, but I only play on a friendly level, and it certainly behooves players to help each other in casual games.
I know I'd forever feel super guilty if I won because of neglecting to point out something my opponent missed. (I have never kept track of wins/losses)
Not to mention if the other player is of a lower skill level, I'd really hate to deprive them of an opportunity to learn the game a little better or to remember rules more easily.

I never forget CS, those crews can (and have in many of my games) really become a thorn to the opponent at times, for me it's always my SAN that I overlook.
I'm pretty good at remembering my opponents SAN, but I lose track of mine in resolving morale checks, etc.
 

Vinnie

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I ws guilty of not pointing out SAN rolls to my opponent as I thought it was up to him to notice. It was then pointed out to me that this is a rule, not an option so I now point them out.
missing a CS roll falls into the same category. It could matter as potentially a captured crew could be worth more than a dead one.

Calling it cheating is a bit harsh unless it were being done deliberatelty (as I used to!)
 

Actionjick

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I ws guilty of not pointing out SAN rolls to my opponent as I thought it was up to him to notice. It was then pointed out to me that this is a rule, not an option so I now point them out.
missing a CS roll falls into the same category. It could matter as potentially a captured crew could be worth more than a dead one.

Calling it cheating is a bit harsh unless it were being done deliberatelty (as I used to!)
I wouldn't categorize what you did as cheating, just a misunderstanding of the process.
 

von Marwitz

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In my opinion, I'd not really consider it cheating per se, but more of unsportsmanlike conduct.
This.

As you can't look into a man's mind, you have to apply in dubio pro reo.

Besides that, is there really a rule that expressively sanctions the pointing out of SANs etc., i.e. something which is "hard coded"?

Deliberately omitting this is bad sportsmanship for sure, but as long as there is no explicit rule stating the requirement, then I would not call it cheating.

Cheating is a very hard accusation and as such, I'd use it with much restraint.

von Marwitz
 

Actionjick

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This.

As you can't look into a man's mind, you have to apply in dubio pro reo.

Besides that, is there really a rule that expressively sanctions the pointing out of SANs etc., i.e. something which is "hard coded"?

Deliberately omitting this is bad sportsmanship for sure, but as long as there is no explicit rule stating the requirement, then I would not call it cheating.

Cheating is a very hard accusation and as such, I'd use it with much restraint.

von Marwitz
NRBH to check if it is written anywhere but I totally agree that extreme restraint should be used before accusing someone of deliberately cheating. I just wouldn't play that individual again and leave it at that.
 

Stewart

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If you can gain VP. Make him roll it later.
If not his loss.
Kinda like leaving ? Ment off from your OB
 

daveramsey

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Kinda like leaving ? Ment off from your OB
Ooh. What's the collective wisdom about this? I thought this was/is a legitimate tactic, throwing away a concealment counter or two to throw off the opponent who might assume the last concealed unit has to be a dummy. Is this cheating?!
 

klasmalmstrom

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Ooh. What's the collective wisdom about this? I thought this was/is a legitimate tactic, throwing away a concealment counter or two to throw off the opponent who might assume the last concealed unit has to be a dummy. Is this cheating?!
There's a Q&A that says you can leave stuff off - if it has a bearing on the VC, etc. - you need to tell your opponent and he gets CVP for it, etc.

Leaving off some OB-given "?" - I really don't see that would fool (for lack of a better word) very many players...... ymmv.
 
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