HtH CC in DASL

Houlie

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Question: why is there HtH CC allowed in all Deluxe ASL scenarios? HtH in the Streets of Fire scenarios makes perfect sense in most cases, but in a number of DASL scenarios, not necessarily.

So what was the rationale for this system change? Wouldn't an HtH SSR done just as well where appropriate? Anybody know this one?

Cheers!
 

Fred Ingram

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along those same lines, why the difference in how wall advantage is handled

I always hate that - I usually like to play the deluxe scenarios as straight ASL that just happens to be on boards that have larger hexes
 

Chas Argent

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In Deluxe, Wall Advantage is possible per hex SIDE. In "reg'lar" ASL units have WA over all hex sides.
 

tppytel

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In Deluxe, Wall Advantage is possible per hex SIDE. In "reg'lar" ASL units have WA over all hex sides.
Ah... B9.321. So it is. Nobody ever thought this might be more appropriately located in Chapter J? Are there any other Deluxe-only exceptions sprinkled elsewhere in the core rules?
 

Roadtogundagai

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In Deluxe, Wall Advantage is possible per hex SIDE. In "reg'lar" ASL units have WA over all hex sides.
Yep - it's all or nothing in ASL. In DASL each hexside WA can be lost/gained independently.

Just curious - do many folks enlarge the standard boards and overlays so they can play standard ASL under DASL rules?
 

jwb3

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Ah... B9.321. So it is. Nobody ever thought this might be more appropriately located in Chapter J? Are there any other Deluxe-only exceptions sprinkled elsewhere in the core rules?
Although there are plenty of places in the ASLRB where things aren't where you'd expect to find them, this one came about quite by accident. (See below.) If there are any other Deluxe-only exceptions (I don't remember any), I expect they showed up the same way.

along those same lines, why the difference in how wall advantage is handled.
In short, because Deluxe is "right" and straight ASL is "broken"!

When the system first was published in 1985, WA was handled on a hexside-by-hexside basis in normal ASL -- just as it now is in Deluxe. In the version of the B9 rules which came with the '85 rulebook, both of the WA examples clearly show the 4-6-7 having WA over the 4-4-7, but then allow the 4-4-7 to claim WA over the other hexside in its hex (U2/U3, and Y2/Z2).

This is why there is no mention of the "Deluxe exception" in Chapter J -- because there wasn't one! This is also why the WA rules as originally written were actually very simple, not to mention shorter...

But the problem with them was that in the worst-case scenario, keeping track of who had WA over what could require trying to fit up to six WA counters around the edges of a 3/4" hex! This could result in some really interesting balancing acts. :nuts:

I presume that this is why the designers quickly decided something needed to change; it's also possible some people found that first version of the WA rules as confusing as they were about to find the second! In any event, with the '87 Errata Pages came a revised B9.32, in which WA was now decided on a whole-hex basis. This resulted in all sorts of bizarre situations with units, but at least it only requires a maximum of one WA counter per hex.

However, the original version is still much more realistic, especially in hedgerow country. Actual bocage tactics had a great deal to do with who had control over which side of what field. And the only problem with the original version was the counter-density issue, which is not a problem in Deluxe ASL.

Given that the second Deluxe module was going to be all about Bocage, where the rule change was going to have the most impact, it therefore makes sense that they decided to write an exception leaving the old rules in force for DASL scenarios.

And to be honest, Fred, while it may not matter much in the city streets, IMO if you play DASL Bocage using the standard ASL WA rules then you're missing out on much of the tactical richness of the DASL experience.

(The HTH rules are chump change by comparison.)


John
 
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Honza

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Great answer John. I didn't know that.
 

Blackcloud6

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Question: why is there HtH CC allowed in all Deluxe ASL scenarios? HtH in the Streets of Fire scenarios makes perfect sense in most cases, but in a number of DASL scenarios, not necessarily.
DASL is designed to portray the very close in fights, in more restricted terrain. Those fight tend to be more vicious.
 

Sarjent Mike

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Yep - it's all or nothing in ASL. In DASL each hexside WA can be lost/gained independently.

Just curious - do many folks enlarge the standard boards and overlays so they can play standard ASL under DASL rules?
It's not easy to do with my little Epson scanner, but it can be done. I've enlarged several of the boards to deluxe size, but they are just way too big for most scenarios.

I've settled for 160% expansion - large enough to use my miniatures and ease stacking to some extent. I take a board down to Kinkos, use one of their color printers, laminate it all for about $12 US. It's still quite the painstaking process because each expanded board requires fitting four different copies together. I adhere them with double-sided tape I borrow from my wife (who is really into the scrapbooking thing, always handy to have a wife who enjoys crafts to provide assistance for this kind of thing,) and they hold up pretty well. I've got boards 4 and 5 on my dining room table set up for a playing A21, Counterattack on the Vistula, and they fit quite nicely. Even at this size though, three or more boards is really stretching it, depending on the size of your gaming area.

The larger playing area really gives me a wonderful picture of the battle. I'm the defending Russians in this scenario and I've got about a platoon of guys with an MMG defending the big building at 4 P6. Everybody else is grouped around the two bridges on board 5 with a few scattered along the road in the woods to the west to discourage German road traffic there.

As I look at the setup, the larger boards really give me a perspective of how far out on a limb I've hung those guys in the board 4 building. There's a slew of German halftracks loaded with well-led elites arriving on turn 1, AND a couple King Tigers. My IS-2 doesn't show up until turn 4. This perspective, although certainly evident on the smaller boards, really brings the game to life for me, and adds a dimension of realism to a rather abstracted terrain setup.

I for one really don't like playing on the small boards. I think most ASLers regard Deluxe size boards with significant apathy, but I'm proudly in the minority that would rather play on the big hexes.
 

Roadtogundagai

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I for one really don't like playing on the small boards. I think most ASLers regard Deluxe size boards with significant apathy, but I'm proudly in the minority that would rather play on the big hexes.
Thanks for the reply :) Me too.

I am lucky in that I have free access to a colour laser copier in my office that can do up to A3 size enlargements at 600dpi. The output really is excellent. I expand each panel of an SK style mapboard so that its length just fits A3. More than 2 boards is pushing it with my available space - but being limited to 2 boards maximum still leaves an awful lot of ASL available to play. ;) :cool: :yummy:

Once you have played on the bigger hexes there really is no going back. An end to those "how do we fit the VBM freeze AFV next to the killstack without spilling everything across the board" sagas.
 
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Glennbo

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Bigger really is better

Once you have played on the bigger hexes there really is no going back.
I agree completely. The only possible down-side is when you're in a tournament situation, and for some reason you're forced to play on regular sized hexes, you feel sad. When this happens to me I get thrown off my game a little. But that's beacuse I'm spoiled now. ;)

We have enlarged ALL 52 BOARDS and made them 3D as well. It's increased our ASL gaming enjoyment exponentially. :)
 
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Roadtogundagai

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Re: Bigger really is better

We have enlarged ALL 52 BOARDS and made them 3D as well. It's increased our ASL gaming enjoyment exponentially. :)
Wow! 3D :yummy: Do you have any pics you can post of the boards? :supper:
 

jwb3

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Just curious - do many folks enlarge the standard boards and overlays so they can play standard ASL under DASL rules?
I love playing at DASL size, but just because of the space it gives you; I've never tried playing a standard scenario enlarged to that size, so it never even occurred to me to wonder whether it ought to use DASL rules or standard ones.

One of our local group has enlarged the boards to RB size, which helps a bit as it allows two 1/2" stacks, but doesn't solve things like vehicular bypass. I think he might have talked about soloing some standard games on DASL size enlargements, but I'm not sure; we never play at his house, and he's never brought any to sessions.


John
 

Whizbang1963

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Question: why is there HtH CC allowed in all Deluxe ASL scenarios? HtH in the Streets of Fire scenarios makes perfect sense in most cases, but in a number of DASL scenarios, not necessarily.

So what was the rationale for this system change? Wouldn't an HtH SSR done just as well where appropriate? Anybody know this one?

Cheers!
Great question Houlie..Why is HtH Deluxe and HASL and only by ssr in "normal" ASL?
 

Bob Holmstrom

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Great question Houlie..Why is HtH Deluxe and HASL and only by ssr in "normal" ASL?
I believe because there were no HTH counters in BV. In DASL, you show HTH by placing the units on top of each other. At least i think i remember reading that.

HTH counters were released with RB, thereby allowing HTH use in non-DASL scenarios.
 

Blackcloud6

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I like DASL but I will only play DASL scenarios on big hex maps. DASL scenarios are (should be designed) to portray a close in fight and not just be regular scenarios on blown up maps.

I do not like playing regular scenarios on enlarged map sets. Enlarged regular maps screw up my whole sense of range and maneuver. I'll take normal maps for noraml scenarios and DASL maps for DASL scenarios.
 

Sparafucil3

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Re: Bigger really is better

We have enlarged ALL 52 BOARDS and made them 3D as well. It's increased our ASL gaming enjoyment exponentially. :)
I hate 3D boards (or at least all of them that I have seen). They really give you a false sense of what the topography is. I really botched my playing of Million Dollar Tree at ASLOLK becuase I buggered up all the LOS's. Just my .02, but I bet all those ESG scenarios you wish you could have back to "make right" were either play tested with the IIFT or on 3D boards. Friends dont let friends play on 3D boards [EXC: I would let Psycho play on your board 9 tatoo]. -- jim
 

alanp

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Re: Bigger really is better

We have enlarged ALL 52 BOARDS and made them 3D as well. It's increased our ASL gaming enjoyment exponentially. :)
Dear King Glennbo,

What did your analyst say about using the royal 'we' again?

The Management
 

SamB

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Question: why is there HtH CC allowed in all Deluxe ASL scenarios? HtH in the Streets of Fire scenarios makes perfect sense in most cases, but in a number of DASL scenarios, not necessarily.

So what was the rationale for this system change? Wouldn't an HtH SSR done just as well where appropriate? Anybody know this one?

Cheers!
The answer is: "Because".
 
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