Wild Bill's ASL Simple Solitaire module--first impressions

Pitman

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I agree with you to a certain point. Trashing everything from WBW because he is the author may seem over the top.
The main reason though to be against his products is the fact that they arent intended to reach a big audience (something I hope every designer wants i.e. his scenarios being played), but instead focus on reaching rare collector's item status through ebay 1 on 1 sales.
If WBW would produce a product for a modest price and offer it as a download/buy to everyone...heck, I would even provide webspace for free! Amen! :cool:
The main reason to be against his products is because he produces undeveloped, unplaytested crap. The fact that he uses E-bay as a way to scam compulsive completists is simply evil gravy. The main thing is that there is no quality in the products.
 
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Quanntum

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The main reason to be against his products is because he produces undeveloped, unplaytested crap. The fact that he uses E-bay as a way to scam compulsive completists is simply evil gravy. The main thing is that there is no quality in the products.
Perhaps they reach the level of worthy 'playtest scenario' at version 8? :laugh:

Edit: He can sell them 8 times then ....tsjing tsjing!
 

Pitman

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I know he does make some changes, because his early ones never had any counter underlines, even for squads that should have had them, but after he saw my critiques that mentioned this, he began to add them. But making changes to a counter is not equivalent to actual playtesting and development.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Any idea why he doesnt defend his products here?
There's no sensible reason on earth for him to attempt to do so, is there? I mean, from his perspective, if the motives assigned to him are true?

Put another way - what reason would he have for doing so? That would be akin to admitting that he cares what anyone here thinks. See post #18. By any reasonable calculation he's made 10 or 20,000 dollars or so on his pet project - I think that's more than most TPP, and more than many of them put together over their entire lifetimes.

That's like expecting Colonel Sanders to go on the radio and admit the 11 Secret Herbs and Spices are really just pepper and floor sweepings. :laugh:
 

serpico

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There's no sensible reason on earth for him to attempt to do so, is there? I mean, from his perspective, if the motives assigned to him are true?

Put another way - what reason would he have for doing so? That would be akin to admitting that he cares what anyone here thinks. See post #18. By any reasonable calculation he's made 10 or 20,000 dollars or so on his pet project - I think that's more than most TPP, and more than many of them put together over their entire lifetimes.

That's like expecting Colonel Sanders to go on the radio and admit the 11 Secret Herbs and Spices are really just pepper and floor sweepings. :laugh:
Hey I use pepper and floor sweepings all the time!

:blab::bite::lier:
 

jrv

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In the interests of fairness and balance, I'd like to point out that when you plunk down $105 for "Beyond Valor (3rd Edition)" you are buying a cardboard box filled with some more cardboard, some paper and four plastic dice that aren't even precision dice. I'm not sure I'd feel so clever. If you are still confused about the matter, ask a (non-playing) friend ;-)

JR
 
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Michael Dorosh

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You'd be surprised how many people think every scrap of ASL-related paper is precious treasure. I was.

S
WBW is 20 grand ahead selling those scraps of "precious treasure" you apparently feel disdain for. :laugh: Nothing surprises me anymore.
 

Spencer Armstrong

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WBW is 20 grand ahead selling those scraps of "precious treasure" you apparently feel disdain for. :laugh: Nothing surprises me anymore.
Don't you feel disdain for WBW's stuff?

But what I meant is that I don't save the boxes any more. I have a few that I'm using for stuff, but about the third time I went to move two dozen empty game boxes, I realized it just didn't make sense. Plain and simple, I'm not collecting this stuff. I buy it to play with it and I'm not ever going to sell it. I clip my counters, I use my boards. I chuck boxes, wrappers and inserts I'm not going to use. I want the components so I can play the game. I used to feel like trying to keep it all pristine, but I got over it. I used to be impressed by shiny components and unpunched counters. No more. What I'm impressed by now is white-edged counters and boards that have miles and wear on 'em. Boards that are falling apart from years of use...things of beauty. Don't get me wrong, I use page protectors and take reasonable care because I'm not out to destroy my stuff, but I'd rather play than preserve. These are toys. And you play with toys. That's all I meant.

S
 

Michael Dorosh

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Don't you feel disdain for WBW's stuff?
It's a good question. It is what it is. I find the reaction to it far more interesting than the stuff itself. His methods of sale are what gives them their value. It's the only reason anyone here is talking about them in multiple threads. The modules themselves are fluff. Harmless fluff. There are no rules in there that anyone would think of adding to the core official system. Yet the topic keeps getting added to the forum because he makes, by some standards, obscene amounts of money for - as jrv put it - paper. I find it fascinating more than disdainful. He's either a rash criminal or a mad genius. :)

But what I meant is that I don't save the boxes any more. I have a few that I'm using for stuff, but about the third time I went to move two dozen empty game boxes, I realized it just didn't make sense. Plain and simple, I'm not collecting this stuff. I buy it to play with it and I'm not ever going to sell it. I clip my counters, I use my boards. I chuck boxes, wrappers and inserts I'm not going to use. I want the components so I can play the game. I used to feel like trying to keep it all pristine, but I got over it. I used to be impressed by shiny components and unpunched counters. No more. What I'm impressed by now is white-edged counters and boards that have miles and wear on 'em. Boards that are falling apart from years of use...things of beauty. Don't get me wrong, I use page protectors and take reasonable care because I'm not out to destroy my stuff, but I'd rather play than preserve. These are toys. And you play with toys. That's all I meant.

S
Thanks for clarifying. I've stated in the past that I look at the boxes as trophies for the non-athletically inclined. I just like the way they look. Still. Not enough to put them in my living room, however.

And, as jrv points out, 100+ bucks for all that cardboard, I'm apparently more Scottish than Vinnie, because it seems a waste to throw out a large percentage of the total weight of cardboard in the trash. I even save the counter trees and the advertisement cards...I do however part with the shrinkwrap. My OCD has its limits.
 

Spencer Armstrong

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It's a good question. It is what it is. I find the reaction to it far more interesting than the stuff itself. His methods of sale are what gives them their value. It's the only reason anyone here is talking about them in multiple threads. The modules themselves are fluff. Harmless fluff. There are no rules in there that anyone would think of adding to the core official system. Yet the topic keeps getting added to the forum because he makes, by some standards, obscene amounts of money for - as jrv put it - paper. I find it fascinating more than disdainful. He's either a rash criminal or a mad genius. :)
That's fair. My "disdain" takes the form of the bold part of definition #2 below. As mentioned, I wasn't talking about WBW at all.

dis·dain
   /dɪsˈdeɪn, dɪˈsteɪn/ Show Spelled[dis-deyn, dih-steyn]
–verb (used with object)
1. to look upon or treat with contempt; despise; scorn.
2. to think unworthy of notice, response, etc.; consider beneath oneself: to disdain replying to an insult.
Thanks for clarifying. I've stated in the past that I look at the boxes as trophies for the non-athletically inclined. I just like the way they look. Still. Not enough to put them in my living room, however.

And, as jrv points out, 100+ bucks for all that cardboard, I'm apparently more Scottish than Vinnie, because it seems a waste to throw out a large percentage of the total weight of cardboard in the trash. I even save the counter trees and the advertisement cards...I do however part with the shrinkwrap. My OCD has its limits.
I like the trophies line and I don't really disagree. I thought of them that way for a long time. And then, well, I changed my mind. To be fair, I don't throw them out right away, just when I have to move them. :)

S
 

Vinnie

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I lugged the boxes et al around for years then after placing the counters in trays the rules and scenarios in folders. The maps and overlays in page protectors...basically organising the stuff so I could easily use it, the cardboard boxes were superfluous. I'm going to play with my stuff. I'm unlikely to sell it although I may give it away to another player who needs it. Why keep the boxes.
 

micky

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it seems a waste to throw out a large percentage of the total weight of cardboard in the trash. I even save the counter trees and the advertisement cards..
that is hard-core!:laugh: I don't save them, but my wife makes me recycle them so perhaps that is worth something. Before I met here I didn't even know we had recycle bins here haha.
 

Michael Dorosh

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that is hard-core!:laugh: I don't save them, but my wife makes me recycle them so perhaps that is worth something. Before I met here I didn't even know we had recycle bins here haha.
I'm not saying it is normal. :laugh: Those boxes come in handy for storing the 10,000 obsolete SL, COI, COD and GI counters I have in storage, because I'm also too _______ to throw them out either. :rolleyes:
 

Paul M. Weir

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I use 4 of the old AH GI sized boxes to store my mounted maps, 3 wider for counters, 5 TLH sized bodes for counters, more counters, bags of overlays, scenarios, more scenarios. Then I used the 3 old HASL boxed for storing zip lock bags with CH stuff and another for HASL maps. There are a few boxes with replaced rulebook pages, V1 rulebook pages (used the binder for excess V2 stuff), old SL scenarios, SL counters and a battered box with surplus counters. Oh, I almost forgot, a couple of boxes are used for some S&T magazine games. They are good strong boxes and with ASL on the box are unlikely to be accidentally thrown out.
 
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