Valor of the Guards Q&A

Discussion in 'ASL Rules & Errata' started by Gunner Scott, Feb 27, 2008.

  1. Gunner Scott

    Gunner Scott Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2003
    Chicago, IL
    Hi-

    See'ing what a pain in the ars it is to go to different websights looking for Q&A, I decided to post what I have gathered here, I'll still update my site, but this thread should be the central area to get the VotG's Q&A.

    VotG9 - Eviction Notice - Off-map terrain Q:

    Is an AFV in hex X18 subject to Street Fighting from the adjacent rubble (building across the street is not in play)?

    Does hex X20 have a Cellar (requires multi-hex building, and only 1 hex of the building is in play)?

    Related question - In scenarios with hexrows A-P (only) of board 17 in play, is the building in hex P4 single-story or two-story?

    Answer:
    Yes, all on-map terrain that is not in play in a scenario remains in effect for offboard movement/entry purposes during that scenario.

    Tom

    VOTG4 The Last Fifteen Gun Question
    Is the 76* Gun considered "Guards" for special ammo depletion purposes?

    The OB includes both Guards AND NKVD units.

    thanks

    hersh

    Answer:

    No, it is not Guards for ammo purposes, (and unfortunately per SSR it is affected by ammo shortage).

    Tom

    VotG3 Khopka's Crossing SSR 3
    Do the Russians roll their "unconcealing" TC DR with the help of leaders/commissars in their Location?

    Answer:

    Yes, leadership/commissar would apply.

    VotG3 Khopka's Crossing Set-up Q

    Hi-

    Gonna play this one and my question is:

    With the overlaping set-up of each Russian group, can these units set-up with other units in their set-up area? Or is each set-up have to be seperate for each group?

    Answer:
    They can 'mingle' with each other in the overlap setup areas.


    Tom



    Soldiers of the 62nd Army, question about the VC Dug-in Tanks in General and for VotG:

    Ok, its obvious, but I'm being paranoid? I'm playing my first VOTG tomorrow PM vs. one Joe Lepard. We're playing SOLDIERS OF THE 62nd ARMY from Dispatches.

    The VCs read
    "The Russians win at game end by amassing more VP than the Germans at game end. Each friendly controlled location of bldg F36 is worth 1VP. Also see SSR 2."

    SO...the only way to get VPs is to get hexes of bldg F36...right?

    But the way the SSR two reads, you could end out getting negative VPs relative to the other side. Do VPs also mean CVPs? I don't think so, but I'm asking...

    IF NOT, then this scenario seems funky...one side could start @ -3VPs. That would mean they'd have to get EVERY location of F36, since it's a factory..I think....

    Anyways, enquiring minds want to know...

    Mark DV

    Answer

    CVP has nothing to do with the VCs.

    Yes, the starting purchases can require one side to capture every hex of the Station.

    Yes, the Station is a factory, so no upper levels. Good luck!

    VotG CG1 errata
    Guys,

    SSR CGI-4 Game End: this is incorrectly written as a '+1 drm', it should be a '-1' drm, as the intent was to shorten the CGI scenarios, NOT lengthen them.

    My sincere apology to everyone, this is my fault- don't know how I missed it.

    Tom

    Dug-in Tanks in General and for VotG:

    Since HIP is a form of concealment,does this mean a dug in tank can be concealed?

    Or is it HIP by purchase - and then when revealed is forever after unconcealed?

    Answer:

    Sure, it may setup concealed. See the 2nd sentence of V12.6214c, also A12.34.

    Tom

    Dug-in tanks and paved roads:
    Hi-

    Was playing soldiers of the 62nd army and I could not find any rules stating that dug-in tanks can not set-up in paved roads, is this correct?


    Scott

    Answers:

    With regard to set-up, a Dug-In AFV has the same restrictions as an Armored Cupola.

    Namely, an Armored Cupola/Dug-In AFV may set up in brush, grain, woods, orchard, shellholes, debris, and Open Ground as if it were a Pillbox. [D9.52]

    A Pillbox can set up in Open Ground, "(including any road/shellholes...)". [B30.1]

    So yes, I would say that a Dug-In Tank may be set up in a paved road.

    Bruce

    VotG 12 Ferry Landing Buildings status
    Is a 2 hex Ferry Landing building considered a Factory (due to the large hex center dots and the fact that the pier is connecting to it)?

    Should LL24 have a large center dot?

    Possible answer:

    1) I believe it's just due to the large hex center dots. The pier connecting to it does not change its status. This is covered in the VotG Factory rules (NRBH, so can't quote chapter and verse).

    2) Most likely. See KDalton's post on this thread: http://forums.gamesquad.com/show...ht=LL24&page=2

    JR

    VOTG6 SSR Trenches connecting to ADJACENT building locations

    Does this mean that a Trench can connect to both the ground level and the cellar of a building it is adjacent to (as both seem ADJACENT to me)?

    Answer:

    The Trenches do not connect directly to the building, only to the celler.

    VotG - Purchased RGs and ELR
    Say I buy a I3 Russian Infantry Company, how do I determine the ELR ?

    Answer:

    The ELR for the Russian is given in the at-start OB for the CG (usually ELR:3), and thereafter 12.619 dictates any change.

    If you are instead referring to RG strength 12.6221 (i.e.- a lightly depleted or heavily depleted Coy RG) where a number of squads undergo ELR replacement (the superscript # following the strength), then 3 of the squads in a Rifle Coy would be replaced with 4-2-6s.

    VotG CG Errata Refit phase
    In the Refit rules (12.619)...the ELR Loss/Gain DRM chart (1st entry) says a -1 DRM "Per each scenario won by the friendly side on the previous CG Day".

    Now I've only been looking over the rules for several days now...but that just jumped out at me as odd.

    Any thoughts? Did I miss something earlier in the rules?

    Answer:

    You do know that it is possible to play two scenarios on the same game day, right???

    German Attack during the day, and then a Russian Night Counterattack...

    Germans cannot dodge playing at night in VotG!!

    VotG T34-M41 Errata
    the T34-M41 is printed as slow traverse (ST). It should have thick lines to denote RST

    VOTG Factories - Gutted Buildings
    A number of the factories on the VOTG MAP have the gutted artwork (eg I16) but the gutted rule does not apply to factories.

    So is this simply a case of they have used the gutted symbol to represent a gutted Factory? (and they are roofless and have a +2 TEM (Factory plus debris) instead of the debris symbol that was used in RB) - if not whats the story please?

    Answer:

    Roofless Factories in VotG are all Gutted.

    Tom

    VotG orchard-gully LOS question
    I believe some neuronal short-circuit has occured in my dwindling brain, which generated some unreasonable doubt...
    Here is my question : does the StuG in E50 have LOS to G49 nd H48 conscripts (their hexes are orchard-gullies too - date : 14 september '42)?

    Answer:
    " I think the orchards exist IN the gully as well, the same as woods does. In that case, they'd block different level LOS in the same manner as a unit on level one of a building in the EX."

    This is correct. Makes the gully a nasty little spot.

    Tom

    As if they are stacked with a Commissar Q

    Also, the rule "as if they are stacked with a Commissar" could have added "(even and only while there is no G/O Commissar leader in the broken unit's Location for this attempt." Or could a broken unit stacked with a G/O non-commissar leader (while no G/O Commissar is present in its stack) rally normally in this situation?

    Also, "... they are.." in this rule sentance is probably redundant.

    2. While your answer (above) is worded "attempt to rally", the wording in CG11.1c) is "rally". I think the intent of this rule is better stated by "attempt to rally".

    3. This rule's text might also benefit from a reference to A25.222, (Commissar) Rally.

    Frank

    Answer:

    No, a regular leader would not be able to rally the unit, it must be rallied as though a Commissar were rallying it.

    Sayeth the Commissar: "Regular Soviet leaders have no authority here!"

    MANDATORY STRONGPOINT RALLY Q

    1. This particular rule is a pretty big "EXC." to A10.6! I take it there is no limit to the number of these, what might be titled, "MANDATORY STRONGPOINT RALLY" in a turn. Would that be correct?

    Answer:

    That is correct, there is no limit on the number of the 'mandatory strongpoint rally' attempts that could occur.

    Refit Phase Step 12.6181 and "Attack" chit (12.625)

    2)In Refit Phase Step 12.6181, it says " In each CG scenario in which the German has selected (my emphasis) the "Attack" chit (12.625) he receives 6 extra CPP...". My question is: Which CG scenario is referred to here? If it is the current CG scenario, the chit selection phase has not yet occurred. (Could the German take the 6 extra CPP's in this step and then later decide he did not want to take the "Attack" chit?) If it is the previous scenario, doesn't the "reward" of the bonus forces seem to be coming a little late?

    Wouldn't a more precise wording of this rule be either:
    "In each CG scenario in which the German will select the "Attack" chit...."?
    OR,
    "If the German selected the "Attack" chit in the last CG scenario played..."?

    Answer:

    As for Support CPP- if the German will be selecting an attack chit then he gets the bonus. If the German will be selecting an idle chit he doesn't get the bonus.

    CG 11.1 Broken Russian Personnel stacked with a GO NKVD.....

    1) CG 11.1 c) says "Broken Russian Personnel stacked with a Good Order NKVD MMC/or in a Location ADJACENT to a Good Order NKVD MMC/Commissar must rally as if they are stacked with a Commissar [EXC: the Morale Level is not increased]". Is this to be read to mean: broken Russians MUST, IN EVERY RALLY PHASE, attempt to rally, even if they are not IN a location with a leader [i.e. the ADJACENT NKVD MMC/Commissar has the same effect as if it were a leader in the broken unit's location]? OR, should the rule be read to mean: broken Russians which can/would otherwise be able to engage in a rally attempt (i.e., because they are IN the same location with a [non-commissar] leader, or are utilizing First Multi-Man Self Rally), and which are ADJACENT to a GO NKVD MMC/Commissar, are REQUIRED to conduct that rally attempt as if in the same location with a Commissar (sans the increased morale)?

    Answer

    Broken Russian Personnel in a NKVD Fanatic Strongpoint that are stacked with a G.O. NKVD MMC *or* ADJACENT to a G.O. NKVD MMC/Commissar must attempt to rally as if they were stacked with a commissar. So yes, they must attempt to rally, DM would be NA, they would get the Rally Terrain bonus, they would not have their morale increased, and the self-rally penalty is NA. If they fail to rally they would suffer replacement as would normally occur w/ a commissar.

    VotG German purchase chart

    A1 StA1 Stug B Pltn, in CG's 2 and 4, shows what appears to my tired old eyes as blue color on both sides of the slash. Should the second dot be green or purple?ug B Pltn, in CG's 2 and 4, shows what appears to my tired old eyes as blue color on both sides of the slash. Should the second dot be green or purple?

    Answer:

    the first pltn is available at start, the other two pltn are not available until Sept 16th; both are dark blue entry code.

    Tom

    VotG CG2/4 GE Setup Restrictions
    Is it a loophole to purchase units from the Blue RGs and set them up between 20 and 39?

    Per the initial SSR II-3 (In CG2) looking at the exception for the Blue RGs it says:

    <<Quote:
    Reinforcing German RG enter on/after Turn 1 [EXC: ... any RG with a Dark Blue Entry Code (12.6217) wishing to enter on the west edge in hexes numbered >=40 may do so only on/after any turn in which the German has made a Reinforcement DR < the current turn number]>>.

    The Blue RG can enter between 20 and 50 or setup on map in hexes >=20 (in a friendly perimeter area) per it's entry code note.

    So a Gun or HW Pltn which gets onboard setup for free, do they have to enter from offboard or can they setup onboard? The SSR implies that all reinforcements purchased with CPP that scenario should come from off board, but it's not explicitly including RGs with the "a" note.

    Additional Blue Infantry RG purchased that want to enter between 20 and 39 won't have to make a DR (or dr even) to arrive on the scene, I'm pretty sure that's ok by the SSR and Entry Code rules, but I want to be sure.


    Answer:

    Per SSR II-3 any dark blue entry code units (including purchased ones) that wish to enter on hexes numbered >/=40 need to roll. This is only for the initial scenario; after that the restriction is lifted.

    Regards,

    Tom

    VotG German RG Purchase Limits more Q's

    Tom,

    My brother had an interesting question, if you're limited to 2 COYs let's say, if you buy 2 companies you can also buy 2 PLTNs right? because you said FRD for them so it's kind of like stacking with leaders right?

    Steve

    Answer:

    Steve, that is correct.


    Tom

    VotG German RG Purchase Limits Q
    Peter writes: "The FlaK HTs and the Gun RGs have the dots together and only one number. Does this mean that the number is the total, and the parent unit can be either of the colored dots? (This is my assumption). "

    Peter, this is correct.

    As for the daily limits- the 2 pltns do count towards the daily limit, so if you purchase another pltn in a second scenario that day it would make 3 pltn (equivalent to a coy).

    Regards,

    Tom

    NKVD RG
    To summarize,

    NKVD RG can set up on map at no extra CPP cost, or they can be purchased in Reserve (to save 1 CPP and to be able to set up east of row L in CGII/IV).

    They don't have to enter.

    Sorry, I know the path to the various rule exceptions is convoluted in this case.

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2008
    bos likes this.
  2. Swiftandsure

    Swiftandsure Robin Reeve Silver Supporting Member

    Jul 26, 2003
    St-Légier
    Do you consider the G23 building gutted?

    Yes, building G23 is gutted (a gutted factory to be specific).
     
  3. Swiftandsure

    Swiftandsure Robin Reeve Silver Supporting Member

    Jul 26, 2003
    St-Légier
    Re: Valor of the Guards Q&A - Gutted factory

    VotG Gutted Factory
    Assume an VotG Gutted Factory of 3 hex lenght in a straight line, LOS is drawn completely within the building depiction.

    Hexs 1 2 3

    Can a unit in hex 1 see a unit in hex 3?

    If so, what is the hinderance mod?


    If it is a gutted factory, hex 1 has LOS to hex 3, with intervening debris and factory hindrances.

    If it is a non-factory gutted building (which comprises the majority of the gutted buildings on the VotG map) then hex 1 does not have LOS to hex 3, because hex 2 is still a regular building Location (and a LOS obstacle); in effect, a gutted non-factory Location costs more to enter and can't catch fire, and unless it is roofless it is treated no different from a non-gutted stone building Location.

    Tom
     
  4. Swiftandsure

    Swiftandsure Robin Reeve Silver Supporting Member

    Jul 26, 2003
    St-Légier
    Re: Valor of the Guards Q&A - VofG Offboard observer

    In VOTG, Scen 1 specifies an off board observer for the Russians on the east edge at level three on turn 13 I believe.

    My question is.....do you set up the observer only on east land hexes on a level three counter in a building, open ground etc?

    Or, is this set up just recorded with HIP? If so, how far east? (or is he across the Volga, watching with binoculars?)

    Technically the observer is across the Volga, but this doesn't affect the offboard observer in any way, LOS is still traced from a hex along the board edge.

    Tom
     
  5. Gunner Scott

    Gunner Scott Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2003
    Chicago, IL
    VoTG Fanatic Strongpoints questions

    Reading the VoTG Rules last night (NRBH now...) I had three questions:

    1) Can a reserve RG that is an NKVD militia (and the leader/s of course) create a Fanatic Location. Not sure why not?

    2) When/how is a fanatic location (of any type) revealed?

    3) In CGII - Russian set up area says Russian Fortifications can only set up East of Row L..but it mentions purchased. Does that mean:
    a) All of the fortifications must set up east of L (ie no front line fotifications)
    b) All of the additional Fortifications you buy with you CPP must be placed East of L but the ones you get with your at start can be west of it (ie front line)
    c) something else...please explain....

    Answer:
    "1) Can a reserve RG that is an NKVD militia (and the leader/s of course) create a Fanatic Location. Not sure why not?"

    Yes, NKVD militia can create a NKVD strongpoint, but the benefits are NA until both a Commissar and a NKVD MMC are activated in that strongpoint.


    "2) When/how is a fanatic location (of any type) revealed?"

    As soon as the benefits are used.


    "3) In CGII - Russian set up area says Russian Fortifications can only set up East of Row L..but it mentions purchased. Does that mean:
    a) All of the fortifications must set up east of L (ie no front line fotifications)
    b) All of the additional Fortifications you buy with you CPP must be placed East of L but the ones you get with your at start can be west of it (ie front line)."

    Russian fortifications purchased *may* (not must) set up east of row L; they can still set up on/west of row L (>/=2 hexes from German setup area) with the OB-given units. The OB-given fortifications (i.e.-roadblocks, FBL & 40 FPP) are the ones restricted to on/west of row L (>/=2 hexes from German setup area).

    Tom
     
  6. Gunner Scott

    Gunner Scott Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2003
    Chicago, IL
    General question about RG and CG Max totals

    In every CG I have looked at there is a CG Max for reinforcement groups, which is fine. Under the CG Max section in the rules is says: "RG given in a CG's Initial Scenario OB never count against this maximum."

    My question is: does this sentence apply to the RG 'purchased' with the CPP given in the I.S.? Or does it only apply to the RG 'given' in the I.S. - i.e. the ones not purchased with the I.S. CPP.

    Foe example in VotG CG IV the German is given so many RG AND is also given CPP in the Initial Scenario. Do the units he purchases with these CPP in the Initial Scenario count towards the CG max total?

    Answer:

    "Things you purchase with the CPP you are given do count.

    The other RGs that you are given do not."


    This is correct.

    Tom
     
  7. Swiftandsure

    Swiftandsure Robin Reeve Silver Supporting Member

    Jul 26, 2003
    St-Légier
    Re: Valor of the Guards Q&A - Off map terrain in partial map scenarios

    When a scenario uses only part of the map, does the terrain out of that sector, that belongs to the global map, still exist gamewise - or is it considered as Open Ground, as off-map terrain usually is?

    Yes, all on-map terrain that is not in play in a scenario remains in effect for offboard movement/entry purposes during that scenario.

    Tom
     
  8. Gunner Scott

    Gunner Scott Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2003
    Chicago, IL
    Re: VotG CG Purchases and Daily Limits

    Re: VotG CG Purchases and Daily Limits

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Roger writes: "I am a little confused on VotG CG purchases….."

    Is the “Daily Max” a maximum for the entire day whether one or two scenarios are played? (one “day” and one “night”)?

    A> Yes.


    So as the Russians if I buy 2 Rifle Coys for the “day” session and then do a night counter attack (lets say on Sept 18th when the hist DRM is 0 for both), I cannot buy another Coy of any type, correct?

    A>Yes (but you could still purchase 2x pltns, as the equivalency is FRD).


    Also with regard to the initial day (Sept 14th)….

    Both sides can buy 2 Infrantry Coy and up to 2 Pltns (since 3 equals a coy) for the intitial scenario….. (the hist drm is 0)…….

    A> Yes.


    When I counter attack at night since my hist DRM is now –2, I can buy 2 more Coys, but the Germans cannot buy any (assuming he bought 2 at the start)…..

    Is that correct?

    A>Yes, correct.

    Thanks and sorry if these sound dumb

    >Not dumb at all. There are parts of VotG (like the purchase limits, Counterattacks, etc) that require clarification because they do differ so much from RB.

    Regards,

    Tom
     
  9. Gunner Scott

    Gunner Scott Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2003
    Chicago, IL
    VotG wrecked railcar hexes

    Printed wrecked railcar hexes are not defined in the rules as being gutted, but the artwork looks much more like debris/shellholes than rubble/shellholes. Are they supposed to be considered gutted or still rubble?

    Answer:

    Printed wrecked railcar hexes are treated as wooden rubble.

    If they become gutted (only can occur during a CG or by SSR) they are marked with a gutted counter and treated as debris.

    Regards,

    Tom
     
  10. bo_siemsen

    bo_siemsen Active Member

    308
    Mar 11, 2004
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Preparing to play CG1 my opponent and I looked over the rules and have a few questions regarding setup restrictions as they appear unclear to us.

    The Initial Russian OB specifically says Elements of the 10th NKVD Division SET UP in hexes ….

    Does this wording “set up” include the RG’s purchased with the 13 CPP they have available? Effectively, should the Russians decide to purchase the Rifle Coy … in order to ‘set up’ on board is he forced to either spend 2 extra points to be able to set up on board or spend one less and set up in reserve ? Or is it still an option to pay 5 CPP and enter the playing area on turn 1.
     
  11. SamB

    SamB Shut up and play!

    You are not forced to spend the extra 2 CPP to setup on board. You can purchase and enter on turn 1 instead if you like.
     
  12. rdw5150

    rdw5150 it's just a game Silver Supporting Member

    Feb 13, 2003
    Erie, PA
    Where would the units enter from (as there are no Entry codes)?

    Peace

    Roger
     
  13. James Taylor

    James Taylor I love women with brains

    Jun 28, 2005
    Michigan
    Re: VotG 19 Ammunition Shortage - Application for OBA

    JT asks:
    VotG 19 Ammo Shortage says that any 80mm or 100mm OBA module for a scenario on 9/18-9/27 is automatically scarce.

    Does that apply ONLY to 80/100 OBA RG purchased on those dates or too any 80/100 OBA module that was purchased prior to 9/18 and retained as well?

    JT

    Tom answers:
    If the scenario takes place within that timeframe (9/18-9/27) the module is affected by ammo shortage.

    Tom
     
  14. pward

    pward Active Member

    Mar 21, 2005
    Springfield, IL
    See SSR CG1-1 Entry Areas on page V9. Don't let the Germans control the east and south edges.
     
  15. rryeates

    rryeates Member

    143
    Feb 1, 2003
    Iowa City, IA, USA
    A Question concerning VotG refit phase (playing CG I)

    12.6124 Leader Battle Hardening

    This concerns the modifier at the bottom of the table. Assume there was a German assualt on the current CG day and Russian counterattack. Lets say the German wins his assualt and the Russian wins his counterattack. Who gets the modifier? Seems like some clarification in the wording is needed here since there could be more than one scenario in a day.

    Randy
     
  16. CoryC70

    CoryC70 New Member

    75
    Sep 16, 2006
    Ottawa
    Here is a quick question about Soviet setup in CGII:

    The Soviets must be >=2 hexes from German setup/entry hexes.

    Are all the west edge hexes (row A) considered German entry areas? If so would this mean the Soviets be allowed no closer than row C (or row D between 20-40) for setup?

    thanks,

    Cory
     
  17. JG53_Jaguar

    JG53_Jaguar New Member

    Oct 6, 2005
    Canada
    Page V21 chart: for S1 Stuka I, the Unit Strength should be I believe "1-3" and NOT "I-3" correct ?
     
  18. CoryC70

    CoryC70 New Member

    75
    Sep 16, 2006
    Ottawa
    Yes i'm quite sure it's a typo and not a rules reference. It should read 1-3 for the S1 reinforcement group.
     
  19. Stacks

    Stacks Member

    Oct 20, 2004
    On page V24 (rule V12.6217) you can read the following (repeated three times),

    ENTRY AREA: RG with a Red/Orange/Brown Entry Code may enter on any north-map-edge hexes that are currently
    friendly and were friendly-Controlled at scenario start;if no such friendly-Controlled hexes exist, then they may
    enter anywhere along the north edge of map on/east of hex U1.

    The question is then - if the German player never Control the single north-edge hex AA1, would this led to that
    the Russian player has no other option than to enter (With a Whole Coy) on a single hex until the Germans "decides"
    to take Control of hex AA1 that would (suddenly) give the Russians the option to enter seven different hexes (U1 to AA1)?

    Could this be clarified/confirmed by anyone?.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2008
  20. pward

    pward Active Member

    Mar 21, 2005
    Springfield, IL
    Very devious. I noticed the entry restrictions, and have contemplated cutting off the north and south edges when possible to force river crossings. I was resigned to letting those u1-aa1 always be available (and covered by fire/mines/wire). This makes it even better.

    You might have to leave 2 hexes available, and the Russian may be required to keep an MMC there, before it would be an empty perimeter and swap sides? You would want to cut it off from the rest of the board, to deny on-map setup for non-infantry RGs. Cutting it off might result in owning it as the German player. I have to re-read the perimeter determination steps to see what would happen.
     

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