Those dreaded two sided scenarios.

[STAVKA]

Find more than a dozen scenarios that with little effort could have been printed on one scenario card (and many were done so by Avalon Hill) instead of the lazy two scenario cards print run.

Scanrio cards: Two down, One to go

MMP started to release many scenarios on two scenario cards, instead of only one scenario card. The people that worked at AVALON HILL had surley released these scenarios on One scenario card and not two. Har själv konverterat några scenario på två A4 till ett A4 ark, enbart med sax, lim och papp.

forum.aslsweden.com

MMP are poor caretaker to avoid simple work that people at Avalon Hill performed.

 

[Old Noob]

There are two sides to this debate [sorry, couldn't resist].

 

[Sparafucil3]

This is what we in the business call a First World Problem. Haters gonna hate I guess. -- jim

 

[STAVKA]

Another thread, same topic.

RB1 One Down, Two To Go

This old classic have not been played for many years and is very good. We played with the latest version of LHRhttp://forum.aslsweden.com//index.php?showtopic=3510 Replaced the German Radio with an offb'd Observer and that Russians are Fanatic in Factories. The battle was dramatic and very bloody...

forum.aslsweden.com

 

[wrongway149]

Poor The Forgotten War. It doesn't get a 'proper' place on the shelf.

The Korean War as in real life and in ASL, the red-headed step child of USA wars.

Some good KW stuff coming soon!!

 

[chris_olden]

MMP are poor caretaker to avoid simple work that people at Avalon Hill performed.

"poor caretaker"
Really?
And you could've done better?

 

[STAVKA]

"poor caretaker" Yes
Really? Yes
And you could've done better? Yes

The thread do not ask MMP to do better , just to do the same work done before, the framework of one-card- scenario blue-prints have already been worked out. MMP just had to copy the work done by people at Avalon Hill.

 

[Old Noob]

Considering that MMP had to work with old AH material for some of the modules, they have done a good job.
Sometimes it's easier to buy a new shovel, rather than duct-tape the handle for the old one.

 

[Evan Sherry]

I’m among those that don’t like two-sided two card scenarios and I believe most ASL players agree.
Thus, two stimulate discussion about how we as players can brainstorm ideas to condense scenarios into one side format, especially for those scenarios which look as if they might be two-paged. I offer these suggestions as constructive ideas to improve the player experience. Realizing that some ASL things are sacred ground I only offer potential improvements. Let’s discuss this and not snipe or get off target My suggestions:
Board depictions, Orders of battle Turn record.. “Keep not a lot to change here.”
Picture? Yeah? Nay? “Personally, I don’t mind pictures I’ll leave that for the forum to discuss.”
Scenario description: “Necessary, but two parts or one continuous summary? “I like continuous”
Special rules: Here I’m looking at condensing words and rules to save space I provide some typical scenario SSRs and then a reworked version The key here is brevity without losing impact and simplifying word usage to economize space.
For Me the SSR section should use the following abbreviations on all cards
EC = Environmental conditions
Wind: NA or summary Example “None at start”
Terrain: examples: PTO ETO Desert, plus any terrain changes in abbreviated form i.e. brush is brush/ roads are paved and so on…
Some examples of current SSRs and my suggested changes followed by a comparison word count.
Instead of “All grain hexes are Rice Paddies” shorten to “Grain is rice paddies” 6 vs 4
Instead of “Place overlays as follows…” Shorten to “Overlays: O1 on 49B5, X15 on19BB5, and so on… 3 vs 1
Instead of “Night rules are in effect.” The initial Base NVR is 3.” replace with “EC: Night, Initial NVR 3 11 vs 4
Instead of “EC are dry with a mild breeze from the south at start” replace with EC: dry, mild breeze from south.” 12 vs 5
Instead of “The Americans receive one module 70+mm OBA” Replace with “OBA: Americans one module 70mm” 8 vs 4
Instead of “Hills on board 3 do not exist, other terrain in those hexes exist normally at level 0” replace with “ No hills on board 3, other terrain remains at level 0” 17 vs 11
Another example “If a scenario looks large perhaps the picture could be eliminated for that scenario everything helps!!

I think by shortening some things and modifying others we can avoid the plague of two card two sided scenarios.

I have personally done the layout for 488 published scenarios plus many yet to be printed scenarios. If you keep the traditional scenario card format, there is only a limited amount of space for the narratives, SSRs and orders of battle. I tell all of my associate designers that if they cannot get their scenario draft on one page, neither can I as the layout person. TOT-style algebraic SSRs are a waste of space and add little enjoyment to the play of a scenario.
Scherpunkt/Rally Point has never and will never release a scenario that does not fit on one side of a card. Why not? Multi-page scenarios get the kiss of death from players in most tournament settings and even in one-on-one home sessions where two players are flipping through scenarios to find one to agree upon. They are simply not played on a regular basis by a majority of players. Also, multi-page scenarios are generally anathema to my design philosophy. Multi-page scenarios are often the product of designer vanity, immature or outdated design techniques (such as designing a 10 turn scenario like it was still 1979) too literal interpretation of the historical situation (designers must remember ASL is an abstraction not a simulation) or a weak or complete lack of editorial oversight. The exception to this for me is a scenario for a HASL.
Modern ASL scenarios should be playable in one sitting. Now, that sitting might be 10 hours if you are a slowpoke, but a non-HASL scenario should be designed primarily with playability/fun as its goals; that means scenarios should fit on one page.

 

[wrongway149]

I have personally done the layout for 488 published scenarios plus many yet to be printed scenarios. If you keep the traditional scenario card format, there is only a limited amount of space for the narratives, SSRs and orders of battle. I tell all of my associate designers that if they cannot get their scenario draft on one page, neither can I as the layout person. TOT-style algebraic SSRs are a waste of space and add little enjoyment to the play of a scenario.
Scherpunkt/Rally Point has never and will never release a scenario that does not fit on one side of a card. Why not? Multi-page scenarios get the kiss of death from players in most tournament settings and even in one-on-one home sessions where two players are flipping through scenarios to find one to agree upon. They are simply not played on a regular basis by a majority of players. Also, multi-page scenarios are generally anathema to my design philosophy. Multi-page scenarios are often the product of designer vanity, immature or outdated design techniques (such as designing a 10 turn scenario like it was still 1979) too literal interpretation of the historical situation (designers must remember ASL is an abstraction not a simulation) or a weak or complete lack of editorial oversight. The exception to this for me is a scenario for a HASL.
Modern ASL scenarios should be playable in one sitting. Now, that sitting might be 10 hours if you are a slowpoke, but a non-HASL scenario should be designed primarily with playability/fun as its goals; that means scenarios should fit on one page.

While I generally agree with my esteemed colleague Mr. Sherry-- there are exceptions to every rule. , (or rather in ASL, EXC: )

On more than one occasion, I have conjured up a monster and told myself: 'Pete, you know this should really be TWO scenarios"

But I also left 'The Sixth Blow' as is....

 

[wrongway149]

• QR code for the historical and aftermath.

I've suggested this to MMP already -- could even be a link to a history channel - type video with tank movies and machine gun sounds!!

The answer I got : "Oh, like these things don't take long enough to layout, edit and test already?"

I had no rebuttal for that .

 

[Robin Reeve]

It takes seconds to create a QR code (there are free tools online).
It can refer to plain text, with no need of an Internet connexion.

But if it replaces the historical setting and aftermath, it is ugly.
It could be used, though, for hidden OB information, which could thus not be directly read from the scenario card.

 

[Philippe D.]

Scherpunkt/Rally Point has never and will never release a scenario that does not fit on one side of a card. Why not? Multi-page scenarios get the kiss of death from players in most tournament settings and even in one-on-one home sessions where two players are flipping through scenarios to find one to agree upon. They are simply not played on a regular basis by a majority of players. Also, multi-page scenarios are generally anathema to my design philosophy. Multi-page scenarios are often the product of designer vanity, immature or outdated design techniques (such as designing a 10 turn scenario like it was still 1979) too literal interpretation of the historical situation (designers must remember ASL is an abstraction not a simulation) or a weak or complete lack of editorial oversight. The exception to this for me is a scenario for a HASL.
Modern ASL scenarios should be playable in one sitting. Now, that sitting might be 10 hours if you are a slowpoke, but a non-HASL scenario should be designed primarily with playability/fun as its goals; that means scenarios should fit on one page.

I tend to agree with you on this - I don't like to see a two-page scenario, and often would rather play two shorter scenarios than one larger.

But there are some players out there that do prefer larger, "meatier" scenarios. So the situation is fine as long as Schwerpunkt/Rally Point are not the only publisher out there

(But count me as one who doesn't want to see QR-codes on scenario cards - I spend way too much time on various devices, I want to still be able to read scenarios when I'm stranded on a desert island with no phone)

 

[Yuri0352]

It takes seconds to create a QR code (there are free tools online).

But if it replaces the historical setting and aftermath, it is ugly.

 

[Yuri0352]

(But count me as one who doesn't want to see QR-codes on scenario cards - I spend way too much time on various devices, I want to still be able to read scenarios when I'm stranded on a desert island with no phone)

 

[Sparafucil3]

It takes seconds to create a QR code (there are free tools online).
It can refer to plain text, with no need of an Internet connexion.

The added plus of using a QR code is nothing on the Internet ever goes down, stops working, and users are so understanding of the technical difficulties that arise. -- jim

 

[Robin Reeve]

The added plus of using a QR code is nothing on the Internet ever goes down, stops working, and users are so understanding of the technical difficulties that arise. -- jim

Again, a QR code can contain plain text which can be read without Internet.

 

[Sparafucil3]

Again, a QR code can contain plain text which can be read without Internet.

Phones fail, people don't understand them (they aren't used nearly as much in the US as they are in Europe for instance), standards changes, apps aren't installed, etc, etc, etc. All a QR would do is changed the bitching and moaning from double- and two-sided cards to a whole new thing.

Me, I do everything digitally and honestly, there are far bigger things to concern myself with in the world than the a change to some cards which are easier to read with my aging eyes. It's all a tempest in a tea pot. -- jim

 

[STAVKA]

Me, I do everything digitally and honestly, there are far bigger things to concern myself with in the world than the a change to some cards which are easier to read with my aging eyes.

Your assumption is wrong, the text size have always been the same on the scenario cards.

MMP have ignored the work done by people at Avalon Hill, to comprimize the information onto one scenario card.

 

[Actionjick]

Tempest in a teapot doesn't adequately describe how trivial a matter that this is. Typhoon in a thimble is more like it.

I like a disputaious thread as much as the next jick but this is really a silly subject. Of the thousands of scenarios how many are printed on two cards? I would suggest putting this topic on the back burner until someone answers that question. Then we will know how big of a problem this is.

Btw this OMOOT has never used a QR thingy. Just sayin'.