Those dreaded two sided scenarios.

Futbol

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I’m among those that don’t like two-sided two card scenarios and I believe most ASL players agree.
Thus, two stimulate discussion about how we as players can brainstorm ideas to condense scenarios into one side format, especially for those scenarios which look as if they might be two-paged. I offer these suggestions as constructive ideas to improve the player experience. Realizing that some ASL things are sacred ground I only offer potential improvements. Let’s discuss this and not snipe or get off target My suggestions:
Board depictions, Orders of battle Turn record.. “Keep not a lot to change here.”
Picture? Yeah? Nay? “Personally, I don’t mind pictures I’ll leave that for the forum to discuss.”
Scenario description: “Necessary, but two parts or one continuous summary? “I like continuous”
Special rules: Here I’m looking at condensing words and rules to save space I provide some typical scenario SSRs and then a reworked version The key here is brevity without losing impact and simplifying word usage to economize space.
For Me the SSR section should use the following abbreviations on all cards
EC = Environmental conditions
Wind: NA or summary Example “None at start”
Terrain: examples: PTO ETO Desert, plus any terrain changes in abbreviated form i.e. brush is brush/ roads are paved and so on…
Some examples of current SSRs and my suggested changes followed by a comparison word count.
Instead of “All grain hexes are Rice Paddies” shorten to “Grain is rice paddies” 6 vs 4
Instead of “Place overlays as follows…” Shorten to “Overlays: O1 on 49B5, X15 on19BB5, and so on… 3 vs 1
Instead of “Night rules are in effect.” The initial Base NVR is 3.” replace with “EC: Night, Initial NVR 3 11 vs 4
Instead of “EC are dry with a mild breeze from the south at start” replace with EC: dry, mild breeze from south.” 12 vs 5
Instead of “The Americans receive one module 70+mm OBA” Replace with “OBA: Americans one module 70mm” 8 vs 4
Instead of “Hills on board 3 do not exist, other terrain in those hexes exist normally at level 0” replace with “ No hills on board 3, other terrain remains at level 0” 17 vs 11
Another example “If a scenario looks large perhaps the picture could be eliminated for that scenario everything helps!!

I think by shortening some things and modifying others we can avoid the plague of two card two sided scenarios.
 

zgrose

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Only way I could see it happening is if you replace counter images with counter text.
EXC 8x 4-4-7; 2x LMG; ....

or shrink the images.
 

Michael Dorosh

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I’m among those that don’t like two-sided two card scenarios and I believe most ASL players agree.
Not to snipe, but I think you proceed from a faulty premise. I don't like double-sided scenario cards on the same card, but if they are spread over two different cards, no problem. To be honest, I've always preferred smaller scenarios anyway.

I would kind of prefer every scenario card to be split in two, if only so you can draw counters on your own version of the card. Rather than eliminate the aftermath, photo, etc., I would like to see it doubled so each card has the intro, aftermath, VC, SSRs, turn track, picture and ID info, but only one side's OB. Then each player has his own copy, you're not crowding each other to put your stuff on the card, heck, maybe you don't even get to SEE what the other guy has.

Then you could really get creative - asymmetrical VC, different photo for each side, separate aftermath write-ups, could even tailor the intros to present them differently from the POV of each side. Or even lay out each side with three different cards, drawn from at random, for true FOW.
 

hayman

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I would like to see it doubled
Can you imagine the size of players scenario collections if every scenario was printed on two cards.
Although I like the idea of not seeing other players OOBs, as I’m all for more fog-of-war in our game, I don’t think we’re going to get that kind of gestalt shift in ASL any time soon ☹
 

klasmalmstrom

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I liked it when they included two copies of all scenarios in Festung Budapest, since several of those FB scenarios are on two card.

In my (proofing) experience, then main reason for two sides is the size/groupings of the OB, so cutting down on the SSR text will be a reason for it to fit onto one page. At least that's what I think.
 

von Marwitz

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Honestly:

Rather than leaving out the picture, turn track, histrorical situation/aftermath, "assuming" certrain rules to be in effect or not (EC, Kindling, ...) only to achieve the goal of reducing a two page scenario to one page...

... I will leave it two page.

Why?

IMHO the price is not worth the cost. The basic layout of scenario cards of MMP and including TPPs has altogether stood the test of time. Maybe there has not been a lot of evolution over the decades (some use color pictures, color counters, color map depictions, the location of certain elements of a scenario layout on a given page may vary), yet I think what we have is pretty good. And maybe there has not been a lot of evolution because the basic concept is quite sound and there is no real need felt to substantially change things.

Personally, I would not want to miss a picture to turn a two-page scenario into one-page. I don't even always read the historical situation (though mostly) but still think it has its place and should not be lacking. So far, this is more a matter of taste and preference. But I would draw a line when it comes to shortening of SSR wording to an extent that it appears apparently forced, i.e. using incomplete sentences or 'telegram-style'. I am against "assuming" certain conditions (Kindling N/A, Moderate, No Wind) as it will without question ambiguities, raise questions etc. which would be detrimental to a scenario-card's purpose.


von Marwitz
 

'Ol Fezziwig

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Can you imagine the size of players scenario collections if every scenario was printed on two cards.
Although I like the idea of not seeing other players OOBs, as I’m all for more fog-of-war in our game, I don’t think we’re going to get that kind of gestalt shift in ASL any time soon ☹
You're seriously making an issue of scenario card collections?
 

'Ol Fezziwig

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Can you imagine the size of players scenario collections if every scenario was printed on two cards.
Although I like the idea of not seeing other players OOBs, as I’m all for more fog-of-war in our game, I don’t think we’re going to get that kind of gestalt shift in ASL any time soon ☹
"DISLIKE"
 

Robin Reeve

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If you remove the images, the turn record track and list the units by text, it is annoying for me, as I usually place my counters on the scenario page(s) and track the turns on one of them.
The images help visualize and recognise the scenario in a glance.
The historical description & afthermath are essentiel to spot the historical setting, and they are interesting to read (sometimes, you even can find some hints about how to play the scenario in them).
Graphics are part of the immersive value of the game.
Changing scenario cards in purely text and numbers, quasi Excell tables, would be awful.

The only receivable reason against two card scenarios would be that your table is too narrow to have them.
But that would reveal a global problem with about any boardgame.

I see that the shut down doesn't help us debate on more serious questions. 😆
 

Michael Dorosh

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Can you imagine the size of players scenario collections if every scenario was printed on two cards.
It's a fair point, but my ASL collection already has a giant footprint in my household.

White binders are AH/MMP scenarios and the main ASLRB. Colored binders are additional rule chapters, TPP stuff, and HASL.


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Gotta keep the boxes, some for storage, some as weird trophies.

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Large DASL/HASL boxes are in another room. The cardboard tubes are George Kelln rolled maps.

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Can't throw out the originals. Some for storage, some as even weirder trophies, like the two purple boxtops.

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Magazine collection. Not all related to ASL, but the double wide has my GENERALs - only reason I bought them was because every issue seemed to have a scenario, an ASL Clinic, or something else ASL related in it.
12525
 

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Michael Dorosh

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My actual playing kit is in my kitchen, next to the table (and the food, I guess).

12527

And about five square feet of wall space back when I thought for some reason it would be possible to consolidate my gaming stuff in a small corner of the basement.

I don't dispute additional scenario cards would have an impact, I'm just not sure the impact would be all that great in comparison to my current storage requirements.
 

Houlie

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I almost always (95%+) print a copy of the scenario card so I can make notes/highlight, e.g., depletions, SDs, keep track of CVP, VCs, etc. If it is two pages it is a non-issue for me.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Wow...I can understand keeping the originals, but six copies of Squad Leader???
Well, the purple boxes are special - 1st Edition. But the first one I bought wasn't a true 1st edition, it was mated with a 4th edition box bottom, and the contents were later editions as well. So I took another stab at it and got a true 1st edition, with rulebook and misprinted scenario cards, etc.

The four later editions - I don't even remember, aside from the one I got for a birthday present one year back in the late 80s, I think I picked the others up cheap as part of auction lots as I tried to acquire other titles.
 
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