The Dawn Of VotG.

[Honza]

In tandem with the Eben Emael Fort thread I thought I'd mention that I now know how VotG was concieved.

Way back in 1992 in On All Fronts there were some scenarios released all about the Central Rail Station of Stalingrad. These scenarios come with their own homemade map - which is incredibly a mini version of the now renowned VotG map.

The scenarios are called; "Valor Of The Guards", "The Nail Factory", "Enter The Dragan" & "Confidence Is High". Sound suspiciously familiar! :clown:

The scenario designer is not mentioned but it HAS to be Tom Morin!

These scenarios are now a piece of ASL history.

 

[richfam]

The scenario designer is not mentioned but it HAS to be Tom Morin!

Tom Morin was in fact credited as the designer, and many other contributers were credited as well. See the front cover of OAF #103:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/326468

And the map can be seen here:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/326471

Go ahead and compare that map to the new VOTG map! :laugh:

 

[Ray Woloszyn]

I had been a long term subscriber even before ASL to OAF. Tom and the rest of the Bunker crowd IIRC were providing most of the decent scenarios that saw print in that fanzine.

Somehow I got a RB sized map in RB colors. I always kept it in my RB box where its sits today. I do not remember ever playing any of the scenarios. Shame on me.

 

[Tater]

Looking at that original map...it looks like there are sewer entrances along the RR tracks. Can anyone confirm that?

 

[Xavier 658]

Hi;

In tandem with the Eben Emael Fort thread...

I have been searching this thread but haven't found it... can you help please?

Cheers,

X

 

[Honza]

Hi;



I have been searching this thread but haven't found it... can you help please?

Cheers,

X

Hi Xavier,

Yes, its called "The Armored Cupola Scenario from Hell". Its a stupid title that does not mention the Fort - but the Fort was covered with Armored Cupolas.

 

[Carln0130]

In tandem with the Eben Emael Fort thread I thought I'd mention that I now know how VotG was concieved.

Way back in 1992 in On All Fronts there were some scenarios released all about the Central Rail Station of Stalingrad. These scenarios come with their own homemade map - which is incredibly a mini version of the now renowned VotG map.

The scenarios are called; "Valor Of The Guards", "The Nail Factory", "Enter The Dragan" & "Confidence Is High". Sound suspiciously familiar! :clown:

The scenario designer is not mentioned but it HAS to be Tom Morin!

These scenarios are now a piece of ASL history.

Knowing the Bunker guys and Tom fairly well, that is where the seed for VOTG came from, way back in the day. Tom worked on VOTG for the better part of 20 years, and the rail station scenarios that were put out in that OAF magazine, were indeed the original scenarios that Tom put out on the subject. It was fascinating over the years to see the number of people he spoke to regarding this module. He got his hands on original source documents from the former Soviet Union when that went the way of the dodo. He spoke to historians from then Stalingrad, now Volgagrad to nail down certain building locations. It was something to watch in progress.
I've helped a few folks with playtesting, back in the day when I actually had time to play this game, , and while all those designers were always very concientous about their designs, this was beyond even the pale of that. Tom would actually actively chase down actual individual building locations for weeks. As I say, pretty cool to see in action.
It's been great to see the hard work pay off. The fact that Tom is still married, without a frying pan permanantly lodged in his brain is an even bigger bonus for the guy.:clown:

 

[Honza]

Knowing the Bunker guys and Tom fairly well, that is where the seed for VOTG came from, way back in the day. Tom worked on VOTG for the better part of 20 years, and the rail station scenarios that were put out in that OAF magazine, were indeed the original scenarios that Tom put out on the subject. It was fascinating over the years to see the number of people he spoke to regarding this module. He got his hands on original source documents from the former Soviet Union when that went the way of the dodo. He spoke to historians from then Stalingrad, now Volgagrad to nail down certain building locations. It was something to watch in progress.
I've helped a few folks with playtesting, back in the day when I actually had time to play this game, , and while all those designers were always very concientous about their designs, this was beyond even the pale of that. Tom would actually actively chase down actual individual building locations for weeks. As I say, pretty cool to see in action.
It's been great to see the hard work pay off. The fact that Tom is still married, without a frying pan permanantly lodged in his brain is an even bigger bonus for the guy.:clown:

Very interesting post. Thanks.

I bet Tom is over the moon to see so many people now enjoying the fruits of his labor. The feedback from the players has been very positive so far.

 

[Xavier 658]

Hi Xavier,

Yes, its called "The Armored Cupola Scenario from Hell". Its a stupid title that does not mention the Fort - but the Fort was covered with Armored Cupolas.

Thanks for your reply

X

 

[Tom Morin]

Carl is right, my wife came damn close to either divorcing me or clubbing me to death with a fry pan.

Then she saw that she wasn't mentioned in the credits- and I had to worry for my safety all over again. Anyways, bless her for sparing me.

I really am quite pleased that most are enjoying VotG, it really does make all of the time spent working on it seem worthwhile (and trust me, I spent a lot of time working on it; that goes for all of my playtesters too).

As for Eben Emael, as yes, that was my first HASL. It was crude yet fun. I since have happened upon much more accurate sources, but I thought someone over in France was doing a HASL on this, so I shelved my plans to update it.

Regards,

Tom

 

[Chas Argent]

Carl is right, my wife came damn close to either divorcing me or clubbing me to death with a fry pan.

Hey, you're a nurse right? She probably figgers you can heal yourself

 

[Honza]

Looking at that original map...it looks like there are sewer entrances along the RR tracks. Can anyone confirm that?

Hi Tate,

I looked at a high resolution scan of the map and I am pretty sure there are no sewer entrances along the RR tracks.

There are a few patches of Debris among the RR that look like they might have sewer entrances in them. But upon closer inspection it shows itself to be the depiction of the Debris.

 

[Tater]

Hi Tate,

I looked at a high resolution scan of the map and I am pretty sure there are no sewer entrances along the RR tracks.

There are a few patches of Debris among the RR that look like they might have sewer entrances in them. But upon closer inspection it shows itself to be the depiction of the Debris.

I did notice that originaly the RR ran more along the hexsides with roads running in between. That would give the map a whole lot of sewer entrances in RR hexes.

 

[richfam]

I did notice that originaly the RR ran more along the hexsides with roads running in between. That would give the map a whole lot of sewer entrances in RR hexes.

OK, now I think I see what you're talking about.

The Central Railway Station map uses railway embankments from Red Barricades, that run along the hexsides. I don't see any special rules for railroads, so all Red Barricades railroad rules would apply.

For example, in hex F3, the two western hexsides are railway embankments, the two eastern hexsides are railway embankments, the north and south hexsides are crossed by a road, and there's a sewer entrance in the middle of the road, between the two railway embankments.

But VOTG uses ground level railroads (GLRR) that run through the center of a hex (like roads do). That's a substantial change in how this area is depicted: the early map uses railway embankments that act as walls, VOTG uses GLRR that do not act as walls.

 

[Tater]

But VOTG uses ground level railroads (GLRR) that run through the center of a hex (like roads do). That's a substantial change in how this area is depicted: the early map uses railway embankments that act as walls, VOTG uses GLRR that do not act as walls.

Right...and one of the main rules for GLRR is that all rules that pertain to paved roads apply to RR. Sewer entrances are a rule that "pertain" to paved roads. Which would mean RR intersections as well as RR/Road intersections are sewer entrances.

LINK...to the discussion.

The reason I bring this up is because, at least initially, there appears to have been some intention to have quit a few sewer entrances coinciding with the RR.

 

[BraveDave]

I really am quite pleased that most are enjoying VotG, it really does make all of the time spent working on it seem worthwhile (and trust me, I spent a lot of time working on it; that goes for all of my playtesters too).
QUOTE]

I took the VASL map of the Central Railway Station from OAF and blew it up to twice its original size so that the game pieces would be easier to manipulate. I played the OAF version of “The Valor of the Guards” twice as first the German then the Russian. Won both times by one or two stone locations needed to win. It was one of the best scenarios I have ever played with numerous tactical options for both sides. MMP should have included it with this pack.

 

[jwb3]

I took the VASL map of the Central Railway Station from OAF and blew it up to twice its original size so that the game pieces would be easier to manipulate. I played the OAF version of “The Valor of the Guards” twice as first the German then the Russian. Won both times by one or two stone locations needed to win. It was one of the best scenarios I have ever played with numerous tactical options for both sides. MMP should have included it with this pack.

The scenarios "Enter the Dragan" and "The Nail Factory" were published in a later issue, #111. Since "The Nail Factory" used only a small portion of the map and was a very high-density scenario, that issue also included a DASL-sized blowup of the appropriate section.

One of our Pittsburgh ASLers, Roy Bartoo, is an artist, and since the OAF map was just a black and white line drawing, he painted up his own version of the DASL map, using the RB color scheme as a guide. It is truly a beauty to behold -- every bit as nice as the official AH DASL maps. When he showed it to us a few years ago, we were instantly sucked into playing "The Nail Factory".

It was classic smash-mouth Stalingrad ASL, with Germans with FTs and DCs, a 150* INF Gun, and several reinforcement groups of tanks and halftracks, while the Russians got mines and a .50 cal and had to make a desperate last stand in the Nail Factory itself -- or at least, what we thought was the Nail Factory itself! Good stuff!

So, knowing that the OAF Central Railway Station HASL had been the genesis of the VotG project, when I opened my VotG package one of the first things I looked for was the Nail Factory. Surprise! It had moved! On the old map, it was a level 2.5 building approximately where L36 and M37 are now. And the current Nail Factory in L38/M39 was only a level 1.5, and might even have been wood. (There was also an extra hexrow between the two with rubble in it.)

Given this rather major change, even though I had been expecting that VotG would have a remake of "The Nail Factory", I wasn't all that surprised to see that it did not. Obviously things had changed quite a bit since the OAF version, and just the shift of the Nail Factory alone had made the old scenario hopelessly obsolete.

Another major change was that the unit attacking the Factory in the OAF scenario appeared to be elements of a Panzer Division, with MkIVs and 251/1 halftracks -- whereas in the current VotG, the primary support of the German infantry is limited to StuGs.

And yet, Roy's map is so nice that I wouldn't rule out going back and playing "The Nail Factory" again.


John

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

So, knowing that the OAF Central Railway Station HASL had been the genesis of the VotG project, when I opened my VotG package one of the first things I looked for was the Nail Factory. Surprise! It had moved! On the old map, it was a level 2.5 building approximately where L36 and M37 are now. And the current Nail Factory in L38/M39 was only a level 1.5, and might even have been wood. (There was also an extra hexrow between the two with rubble in it.)

The location of the Nail Factory was ...'nailed down'... during the playtest of VotG, IIRC, with an assist from research gleaned from L2s Streets of Stalingrad. It was all part of Tom & Co.s never-ending desire for absolute accuracy for VotG...

 

[DPetros]

:toast:Yes, lots of things moved around between the time Tom first produced his OaF version of the battle.
It took he and I a while to sort the battlefield out; the location of the Rail Station, the condition of the buildings, etc.. Not until a very high resolution aerial photo circa 9/42 was obtained from NatArchives did we know the condition of the city. A full-size map was once prepared, but later scrapped due to it having been based on photos taken prior to the intense aerial bombardment in 8/42. The size of the buildings was determined by the size of the shadow next to it, and whether the building had a roof or not was fairly clear - you could see interior walls. Old street maps were discovered in NatArchives which provided street names and hence battle locations mentioned in narratives - a kind of 'Rosetta Stone' for Tom.
Man, it was fun huh Tom? :toast:

 

[RobZagnut]

>I took the VASL map of the Central Railway Station from OAF and blew it up to twice its original size so that the game pieces would be easier to manipulate. I played the OAF version of “The Valor of the Guards”

I was a subscriber to OAF for only about 10-12 issues, but I certainly got the right issues. I photocopied the CRS map to Red Barricades sized hexes then painstakedly colored it with felt pens from the art store with colors that matched the RB colors. Then I laminated it. It's still one of my most prized ASL possesions. Played it and was immediately hooked. When I heard that Tom was going to re-work CRS into a RB sized module I knew that I had to do everything in my power to be a part of that project.

I was always in admiration of the time and dedication that Tom and Don put into that module. I'm so happy for them to see such a spectaculor end result.