Manila questions

[sdennis]

I appreciate the pdf, but I did already have that and nothing in there answers this "destroyed bridge in a one hex wide esteros" question.

 

[JimWhite]

A US amphibian is crossing the Pasig River...common sense says Wading rules should apply.

However, we cannot find confirmation anywhere.

What say the forumites?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

A US shallow-OCEAN is crossing the Pasig River...common sense says Wading rules should apply.

Wading is only used in shallow-OCEAN, IIRC.

So Amphibians move into/through the Pasig River, per Section D16.

 

[JimWhite]

Wading is only used in shallow-OCEAN, IIRC.

So Amphibians move into/through the Pasig River, per Section D16.

D'oh!

Too many turns spent at Tarawa...totally forgot about section D16...

 

[Perry]

I appreciate the pdf, but I did already have that and nothing in there answers this "destroyed bridge in a one hex wide esteros" question.

No rubble.
COWTRA.

 

[william.stoppel]

No rubble.
COWTRA.

Y’all could reissue the COWTRA shirts as a good reminder Perry

 

[johnl]

With actual cows - very timely.

 

[JimWhite]

It may be in the rules...can't find it though...

What direction is the Pasig River current flowing?

Disregard...slow current = No Drifting

 

[ASLSARGE]

So if I convince myself that destroying a bridge in the one hex wide canals, leaves Rubble (as it is not DEEP), how do you play this combo terrain?
A fordable river that has Rubble in it...

Can tanks still enter it albeit slower than on the original bridge?
Can infantry now advance into it, NOTE: they are not allowed to advance into a fordable hex normally...

No rubble is created. The destroyed parts of the bridge disappear under the water. Once any Manila bridge is destroyed no crossing can be made via that route. Need a boat or amtracs.

 

[ASLSARGE]

It may be in the rules...can't find it though...

What direction is the Pasig River current flowing?

Disregard...slow current = No Drifting

East to West....no rulebook handy at work but it should be in there.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

No rubble is created. The destroyed parts of the bridge disappear under the water. Once any Manila bridge is destroyed no crossing can be made via that route. Need a boat or amtracs.

Happy Birthday Sarge!!!

 

[cwillmer]

Jim tried very had the other nigh to explain this to me. I could not and still can't grok it.

The LVT enters the map at 4T40, moves to 4S29 and then into the water in 4R40 The MPs expended (land/amphibious) are:
4T40 1 / 1
4S29 2 / 1 (still just 1)
4R40 6 / 2

Is this correct?



The LVT wants to continue to 4Q39. Does it have enough MPs to do so? What is the cost to enter 4Q39?

Thanks

 

[Smedley]

In my non-expert opinion, I would say 5MPs. Same as crossing a crest line.

Rob

 

[Wayne]

D16.2 Amphibians engage their land movement rate when moving from a Water Obstacle to a land hex and vice versa. Amphibians may use a combination of their amphibious and land MP in the same MPh; ... the land MP loss is one-third for those amphibious vehicles with a water mode MP rate of 3 ...

D16.23 Amphibians must check for Bog (8.2) in waterline hexes when moving from Water Obstacle to land hexes.

So,
to 4T40 1 / ∑1
to 4S39 1 / ∑2
to 4R40 12/3=4 / ∑6
to 4Q39 1+4=5 / ∑11 (and a Bog check)

Bog (if any) occurs w/vehicle bogged in waterline hex 4Q39 (D8.2).

 

[cwillmer]

Rob, Wayne, thanks for the replies. Adding the land and amphibious MP expenditures makes sense. Keeping them separate was the problem for me.

One further question: Going to 4Q39 is crossing to a higher elevation hence the 5 MPs. If there was a seawall on 4Q39 the cost would only be 3 (1 for Q39, 1 to cross the wall, and only 1 for the elevation change (SF 6.21, it is high tide). The elevation change is the same so why the lower cost to cross the wall? .

 

[klasmalmstrom]

One further question: Going to 4Q39 is crossing to a higher elevation hence the 5 MPs. If there was a seawall on 4Q39 the cost would only be 3 (1 for Q39, 1 to cross the wall, and only 1 for the elevation change (SF 6.21, it is high tide). The elevation change is the same so why the lower cost to cross the wall? .

At High Tide the elevation would in reality not be the same...even though LOS is still drawn to Level -1.

Footnote 10:
"As the tidal river and bay rise, the top of the seawall is about one meter above the surface of the water. As the tidal waters fall, the top of the seawall can be 2 to 3 meters above the water."

 

[cwillmer]

Thanks Klaus. I guess I should read ALL the footnotes.

 

[Steve E7]

LVT4's seem to be a nice option to purchase in the CG's. There not being a Seaborne Assault, I see no rule causing their recall once they move to Hinterland, or unload. I'm thinking pro's to using them are, they can serve as halftracks, moving troops around quickly, and then eventually can be abandoned taking their 3 mg's out dm which can be used in future CG dates ( although the HMG's need to pass a roll to do so ). The con's would be they are vulnerable to the small caliber IJA gun's due to their size and low AF and are not retained into the next CG date by rule. As discussed above, with the tide during the day being high, its not MP costly to move over the seawall that lines the Pasig. My thoughts as I prepare for CGIV.

 

[cwillmer]

Let's call this Continued Confusion on Amphibious Movement (CCAM).

This LVT is in Motion and wants to move to 3D8, cross the seawall stop, and unload its infantry passengers. What are the MPs expended per hex, either Land or Amphibious?



Given this is an LVT4 with the rear ramp. Must the infantry passengers unload through the rear VCA and into the same hex? Or can they elect to go "over the side" as with other LVTs?

 

[ASLSARGE]

LVT4's seem to be a nice option to purchase in the CG's. There not being a Seaborne Assault, I see no rule causing their recall once they move to Hinterland, or unload. I'm thinking pro's to using them are, they can serve as halftracks, moving troops around quickly, and then eventually can be abandoned taking their 3 mg's out dm which can be used in future CG dates ( although the HMG's need to pass a roll to do so ). The con's would be they are vulnerable to the small caliber IJA gun's due to their size and low AF and are not retained into the next CG date by rule. As discussed above, with the tide during the day being high, its not MP costly to move over the seawall that lines the Pasig. My thoughts as I prepare for CGIV.

You might want to take another look at CG17 Watercraft. Page SF31 top right column.