Best Division in the German Army WWII

[ASLeaderPlayer]

Hi out there, Im sure this question has been asked before, but it is a good one.

What was the best (combat effectiveness, morale, fighting spirit, capability, fanaticism, etc.) division that the Germans fielded during the war.

Here are some possibilities that I came up with

1st SS Pz
2nd SS Pz
3rd SS Pz
12th SS HJ
GD Division
the 1st Parachute Division
Hemann Goering (spelling) Panzer
Pz Lehr Division

Other good units (not division sized) - those various 500 series Tiger Battalions
The 5 specially trained assault Engineer battalions brought in for street fighting in Stalingrad


What do you think?

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Hi out there, Im sure this question has been asked before, but it is a good one.

...

What do you think?

I think your initial premise is faulty. It is not, in fact, a "good" question.

By the way, the 12th SS Panzer Division was laughably bad, with an incredibly poor combat record in Normandy, so I'm not even sure why they would make your list. Even if it was possible to define some kind of way to compare apples and oranges (infantry vs. armor vs. armored infantry) in what would be highly subjective areas of analysis, HJ would come up short in any way you cared to name. At the end of the day, I'm not even sure what the point would be, to be honest.

I'm presuming, of course, you're not serious about "fanaticism" as a measure of military combat prowess. Aside from the fact there is no gauge on which to define it by, I don't believe it is a positive attribute; particularly not in the case of the HJ, which was never smart enough to use intelligent tactics on either the offence (see the costly debacles of June 7) or the defence (see the costly debacle of July 7), relying instead on "fanaticism" and blind faith in duty to see them through. Didn't work for them.

 

[fropa98]

Hi out there, Im sure this question has been asked before, but it is a good one.

What was the best (combat effectiveness, morale, fighting spirit, capability, fanaticism, etc.) division that the Germans fielded during the war.

Here are some possibilities that I came up with

1st SS Pz
2nd SS Pz
3rd SS Pz
12th SS HJ
GD Division
the 1st Parachute Division
Hemann Goering (spelling) Panzer
Pz Lehr Division

Other good units (not division sized) - those various 500 series Tiger Battalions
The 5 specially trained assault Engineer battalions brought in for street fighting in Stalingrad


What do you think?

Hermann Goering was the toughest outfit in the whole ******* German Army according to George C Scott.
I think the 5th SS and Grossdeutschland certainly deserve mention.
Panzer Lehr was a little off my list due to it losing Omaha Beach and being destroyed in the Falaise Pocket.

 

[Vinnie]

In any question like this much depends upon who they fought. DAK units would score highly in a pole of Brits. Fallschimjager would be featured by the Canadians and the us might tend towards those units employed innthe bulge.

Add to this the dearth of details about exploits innthe eastern front particularly about units that fought very well but were then cut off and destroyed (6th army anyone?) and you have s problem.

It's all subjective anyhow.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

score highly in a pole of Brits.

Is that like a pride of lions or a murder of crows?

 

[Vinnie]

It's the class system. You'll find them stacked one on top of the other (and then moving in open ground, the fools!)

 

[AdrianE]

By the way, the 12th SS Panzer Division was laughably bad, with an incredibly poor combat record in Normandy,

Exactly. Too many people still believe Nazi propaganda when it comes to this unit. These guys were inept at best.
It was a very good thing that the Nazi's wasted all that splendid equipment on people who didn't know how to use it effectively.

Add the Bulge to their list of poor performances. All they could do was frontal attacks into prepared defenses.

 

[Manilianus]

Come on, everyone here wants to say "Prinz Eugen", admit it :devil:

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Come on, everyone here wants to say "Prinz Eugen", admit it :devil:

I knew some fellows who re-enacted Prinz Eugen. Even they, who spent money on uniforms and insignia and hard cover books about the history of the unit, had to admit that they were "scumbags".

 

[Manilianus]

I knew some fellows who re-enacted Prinz Eugen. Even they, who spent money on uniforms and insignia and hard cover books about the history of the unit, had to admit that they were "scumbags".

Dirty Dozen, in a way :}

 

[Kevin Kenneally]

The German 83rd Infantry Division.

Fought in Kholm, Velikye Luki.... Always fighting defensively against superior forces and continuing to give better than what was given them....

 

[Manilianus]

The German 83rd Infantry Division.

Fought in Kholm, Velikye Luki.... Always fighting defensively against superior forces and continuing to give better than what was given them....

Wasn't it rearranged two times, after Velikye Luki and Courland Pocket?

Got to admit though, any Eastern Front unit which survived "Bagration" has got to be elite, in some way at least.

 

[Kevin Kenneally]

Wasn't it rearranged two times, after Velikye Luki and Courland Pocket?

Got to admit though, any Eastern Front unit which survived "Bagration" has got to be elite, in some way at least.

MANY Division sized units were 're-arranged' after a few winters on the Ost Front.

 

[witchbottles]

I'd +1 the 5th SS Wiking Division, and its sub - units.

not too many others managed to survive all 4 years on the OstFront, including being surrounded and cut off 4 separate times, and still have anything resembling unit integrity.

KRL,
Jon H

 

[sarfs]

Wouldn't it be the Joy Division?

 

[sarfs]

Wouldn't it be the Joy Division?

They saw the most action, and it was all hand to hand. :clown:

 

[AZslim]

All the ones that surrendered in May of '45.

 

[Kevin Kenneally]

I would add the German 253rd Infantry Division; the US Army even has many stories PUBLISHED about this Infantry Division.

 

[panzergrenadier]

As it seems an age since I've posted on the forum I'd say my "best" in terms of combat acheivement goes to the GD division, or Regiment as it was in 1940 & early 41.

 

[wrongway149]

Exactly. Too many people still believe Nazi propaganda when it comes to this unit. These guys were inept at best.
It was a very good thing that the Nazi's wasted all that splendid equipment on people who didn't know how to use it effectively.

Add the Bulge to their list of poor performances. All they could do was frontal attacks into prepared defenses.

From my research,the 2nd SS Panzer Korps, (2nd SS and 9th ss Pz Divisions) which was held in reserve behind the 1st SS panzer Korps (1st and 12th) was arguably better better fit trained and equipped on 16 Dec. The problem, orf course at teh time was loyalty. Stadler and Bittrich were not considered as trustworthy to the Nazis as Mohnke and Priess, so were not allowed to lead the attack.