Your 5 Favorite HASL Maps

Jumbo

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I'd say:

  • Red Barricades (hand-painted version)
  • Slaughter at Ponyri (you need to see this one - C.K. did the final artwork which is great)
  • Festung Budapest
  • Hatten
  • Valor of the Guards (see my 'pimped out'* personal version below. The original version and it's printing was not so great IMO, so I made some changes)
View attachment 12430
* Scott Thompson's interpretation - not mine
I don't suppose a copy of your personal version of the Valor of the Guards map is available for sale?
I bet that would be a hot item!
 

Vic Provost

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Mine are:

Valor of the Guards - Great map for a great HASL from Don Petros and Tom Morin. :)
RB/RO - The combined factories are awesome, Red Barricades has stood the test of time, I can only hope Red October provides me a fraction of the memories the northern most map has.
Dinant - I just got mine yesterday and am blown away by how nice it is, disregarding the color controversy over the wooden buildings, they look wood to me.
Festung Budapest - Awesome job by Bill Cirillo, great job.
I have a tie between 2 smaller HASLs, our own Rees map from Operation Turnscrew in Dispatch #44 (Tom and the VASL guys did a great job) and MMPs Hatten map which is simple and understated and gets bonus points for the winter appeal being historical.

There are so many others, too many to list, but the above came right away to mind, Vic.
 

Tom Morin

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I'd say:
  • Valor of the Guards (see my 'pimped out'* personal version below. The original version and it's printing was not so great IMO, so I made some changes)
View attachment 12430
* Scott Thompson's interpretation - not mine
I agree with Don, which is why the VotG map is not one of my faves....print quality was disappointing. If it had turned out like Don's 'pimped' map it would've made my top 5. And, the little snippet of the map here shows why Don is simply the best!

Tom
 

TopT

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I'd say:

  • Red Barricades (hand-painted version)
  • Slaughter at Ponyri (you need to see this one - C.K. did the final artwork which is great)
  • Festung Budapest
  • Hatten
  • Valor of the Guards (see my 'pimped out'* personal version below. The original version and it's printing was not so great IMO, so I made some changes)
View attachment 12430
* Scott Thompson's interpretation - not mine
That looks nice. Anyway to share that?
 

RobZagnut

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Good choices. I like the KGP maps too, because they are so gorgeous. Not easy to play on (barbed wire, slopes and many levels of hills), but gorgeous.

And I agree with Tom, which is why I concentrate on the number and quality of the VotG scenarios, but not the map.
 

DWPetros

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I'd like to share it somehow - just not sure how. Basically, I took a paper copy of the published map, then using paint, pimped the whole thing out with more definition for Debris, Gutted buildings - interior shadows, building shadows, Rubble, etc.. And I enlarged it on a standard printer, using quality 11x17 paper to 1". Looks a lot grubbier, just as Stalingrad should look.

And I don't like the new glossy maps either (ie. Red Factories, Hatten, etc.) for two reasons -1) battlefields shouldn't be glossy, 2) I can't pimp them out with paint. Anyway, if anyone has any good ideas about circulating the revised VotG map, I'm all ears. I'd even be glad to battle-scar the existing map if MMP wanted me to, then for them to reissue it using an improved printing method. That one is over my head though...
 
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TopT

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I'd like to share it somehow - just not sure how. Basically, I took a paper copy of the published map, then using paint, pimped the whole thing out with more definition for Debris, Gutted buildings - interior shadows, building shadows, Rubble, etc.. And I enlarged it on a standard printer, using quality 11x17 paper to 1". Looks a lot grubbier, just as Stalingrad should look.

And I don't like the new glossy maps either (ie. Red Factories, Hatten, etc.) for two reasons -1) battlefields shouldn't be glossy, 2) I can't pimp them out with paint. Anyway, if anyone has any good ideas, I'm all ears. I'd even be glad to repaint the existing map if MMP wanted me to, then reissue it somehow. That one is over my head though.
You could send that file out on WeTransfer and then it is up to the individual to find a way to print it or you could charge a price to produce them and send them out. I sincerely doubt that MMP is going to produce a second map for VotG.

By the way, that snippet looked very cool and I really like VotG.
 
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DWPetros

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You could send that file out on WeTransfer and then it is up to the individual to find a way to print it or you could charge a price to produce them and send them out. I sincerely doubt that MMP is going to produce a second map for VotG.
By the way, that snippet looked very cool and I really like VotG.
Thanks, Top. I'm a bit leary about sending or selling stuff that MMP has published, even though I did the artwork. I do appreciate the comments.
 

TopT

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Thanks, Top. I'm a bit leary about sending or selling stuff that MMP has published, even though I did the artwork. I do appreciate the comments.
You are not profiting off of anything MMP has done. This is nothing different than what the TPP's are doing. They took a product, changed it to what they wanted to and then sell that for their work.
All you would have done is modify the map to your liking (and it does look cool) and then shared that. In order for someone to utilize that map, that person would still have to own VotG. Without VotG the map is totally useless.
 

TopT

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Profit is only one consideration for determining violation of copyright, and you need not profit to violate.

JR
BS. You guys pipe in here about this all the time.

They are taking the counters, changing them to produce the product that they want and then sell that for a profit for their work
They are taking the rules, changing them to produce the product that they want and sell that for a profit for their work
They are changing the maps in VASL, again to what they like and putting that out for anyone to use
All of this stuff looks almost exactly like what MMP produced

Now he changes a map to what he likes and he doesn't seem like he is trying to sell it and that, that is a bridge too far. BS.
 

jrv

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BS. You guys pipe in here about this all the time.

They are taking the counters, changing them to produce the product that they want and then sell that for a profit for their work
They are taking the rules, changing them to produce the product that they want and sell that for a profit for their work
They are changing the maps in VASL, again to what they like and putting that out for anyone to use
All of this stuff looks almost exactly like what MMP produced

Now he changes a map to what he likes and he doesn't seem like he is trying to sell it and that, that is a bridge too far. BS.
The thing about copyright law is that you never know what is a violation and what is not until you go to court. Ok, there are certain things that are very likely to be, and certain things that are very unlikely. If you take an original copyright work and make a slight change to it, you are probably violating copyright. If you take a copyright digital image and use one pixel out of ten million from it, you probably won't be found in violation. Then there's a broad middle. I don't know for certain, for I am not a lawyer, but I am inclined to believe that if you take a copyright work and make some slight or even substantial changes to it and start distributing it (even for free), you are still likely to be in violation of copyright. If you plan to pursue that path I would suggest getting in contact with a copyright lawyer first.

JR
 
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TopT

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The thing about copyright law is that you never know what is a violation and what is not until you go to court. Ok, there are certain things that are very likely to be, and certain things that are very unlikely. If you take an original copyright work and make a slight change to it, you are probably violating copyright. If you take a copyright digital image and use one pixel out of ten million from it, you probably won't be found in violation. Then there's a broad middle. I don't know for certain, for I am not a lawyer, but I am inclined to believe that if you take a copyright work and make some slight or even substantial changes to it and start distributing it (even for free), you are still likely to be in violation of copyright. If you plan to pursue that path I would suggest getting in contact with a copyright lawyer first.

JR
Yeah, Okay. In other words your just talking and know that you have no idea.

All of that other stuff is done EVERYDAY. The counters, just by themselves, are so similar and not once did you open your mouth about that but your going to chime in here. TBH, I do not care at all about any of it. Make what you want, sell what you want but don't try and think your calling balls and strikes here.

If he chose, Don could send that map to whomever he wished. It is absolutely no different then another person creating different cards for Up Front and putting them out to anyone who wanted them and that was done. It is the exact same thing. You still need the game in order to use those cards or use that map. One without the other is useless.
 

jrv

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Yeah, Okay. In other words your just talking and know that you have no idea.
Then don't ask me. Ask Ray Tapio about cease-and-desist letters. He may be able to help you understand the matter better. Or perhaps you can direct me to a web page that summarizes how you think copyright works. I have looked at a lot of such summaries in the past, so you should be able to find one that explains what you say.

JR
 
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TopT

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Then don't ask me. Ask Ray Tapio about cease-and-desist letters. He may be able to help you understand the matter better. Or perhaps you can direct me to a web page that summarizes how you think copyright works. I have looked at a lot of such summaries in the past, so you should be able to find one that explains what you say.

JR
First off, I apologize for the words in my last post. I knew I should have changed them even before i sent them.

On the subject. I was around back then (in regards Ray) and a lot of what happened was personality driven but Ray did patently steal the images from the ASL counters and try to sell them as his own. Now, he has changed the silhouettes, changed a couple fonts, and placed a watermark on them and sells them as his own. There is no challenge from any quarter. A similar item was produced in much the same way. Still no challenge.

MMP maps are made for VASL for the sole benefit of this community and some of those same maps are changed for aesthetic purposes. If someone wanted they could print any of those maps, for their use, but if you do not own the original product that map is useless. This is absolutely no different.

There are 4 factors of fair use under copyright law and I think (not a lawyer) that the fair use might be sustained in 3 of them. His map is making a commentary on the original, it is entertaining in principal and there is absolutely zero impact on the current market. Keeping in mind the arguments I made in regards to production and sale or use of counters and maps already.

I think, in this case, that it is all moot. I don't think that Don wants to share this item because it is his unique item. It is somewhat nice to be the holder of that unique item.
 

Honza

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Concerning the VotG map; I found that a little bit of effort and some colored pencils did a great job of sharpening the image. It is pretty clear now.
 

Vic Provost

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That does look good and that is something that even I could manage.

I got more interested in Don's map because of the 11 x 17 sections he created but in all sincere honesty, that little snippet does look way cool. Don has a very nice talent.
Having seen his originals I can honestly say Don is AWESOME! Vic. :)
 

Carln0130

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One general comment I will make, having seen Nadir work on the Dinant map, is that I was utterly thunderstruck by the amount of detailed research he did. Nadir would send Dan and I period pictures of buildings in an individual hex, not always key buildings either and ask " What do you guys think? Level One with a Steeple or Ground Level with a Steeple?" Other questions along these lines as well. How he was able to research that town down to the building was very impressive to say the least. There were reasons that the Inn Keeper at Dinant told Dan with amazement, "You could still drive around town with this map, even though some things have changed."

I haven't been directly involved with the map work on other modules, other than a view from the bleachers as Tom worked on VOTG, but I imagine that the same considerations take place. Really fun to be a part of and watch these skilled people work.
 
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