Your 5 Favorite HASL Maps

DWPetros

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Thanks guys.
Personally, I'd like to share the map and have no interest in making money on it. I see this as a community thing. That said, I need to make sure that MMP's interests are kept and my relationship, past and present, works well with them as I'd like to do more work with them (which at this point is whatever design work I can do, minus painting maps - sigh). If they had no problem with it, neither would I.

My only complaint about all this is somewhat off subject - namely that HASLs aren't any longer hand-painted; the one thing I most enjoyed about being involved over all these years. I get why MMP needs to go digital, but I also think it's kind of too bad. To me, digital artwork, though precise (and I also understand the need for visual precision in ASL), isn't as interesting or as realistic looking as it can get with painting. I think this is driven by engineer-minded thinking, vs. artistic-minded thinking. Thankfully, we still have Charlie K. doing the digital artwork - the only guy who can combine engineering and artwork well here. If not for him, we'd not be in a good spot regarding the artwork. His work is far above anyone else's digital work. Yet even his work, as good as it is, still isn't in my view, as great as his painted works. Red Barricades is the best example of that.
 

jrv

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My only complaint about all this is somewhat off subject - namely that HASLs aren't any longer hand-painted; the one thing I most enjoyed about being involved over all these years. I get why MMP needs to go digital, but I also think it's kind of too bad.
I agree that digital maps to date are not as good (to my eye) as the painted maps. The one feature I notice most is gullies and streams. They have not yet looked as good in digital; there's too much "sameness."

To me, digital artwork, though precise (and I also understand the need for visual precision in ASL), isn't as interesting or as realistic looking as it can get with painting. I think this is driven by engineer-minded thinking, vs. artistic-minded thinking. Thankfully, we still have Charlie K. doing the digital artwork - the only guy who can combine engineering and artwork well here. If not for him, we'd not be in a good spot regarding the artwork. His work is far above anyone else's digital work. Yet even his work, as good as it is, still isn't in my view, as great as his painted works. Red Barricades is the best example of that.
I agree that to date the digital maps have not has the same quality as painted maps, but I think that one could potentially achieve the same "interesting" quality that marks the painted maps. At the end of the day when you are printing there are just millions of tiny dots, and the dots don't know how they were generated. It might be that we don't have the skill yet, or it might be that it is harder to generate the nuances that are easy (at least for artists like yourself) in paint. I suspect we have not had a "great" digital artist try his hand yet.

JR
 

Honza

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Honza

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I have seen Don's Ponyri 1st edition map and it is gorgeous. Deserves to be in the top five. The 2nd edition might be even better, I don't know because I have not seen it.
 

TopT

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Thanks guys.
I see this as a community thing.

That was my basic point in all of this.

If it happens, great. I've made it clear that I would really like to get a copy. If it doesn't work out that is okay as well as I am pretty sure that I am not going to die without it either.

Any ways, it really looks good and I'll bet the whole map is just spectacular. On visual appeal I agree with you on the hand painted vs. digital but I could never create either.
 

DWPetros

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I've always thought - these ASL maps are first: functional gameboards that need to follow the rules and not be questionable in terms of LOS, type, etc.. To the extent that can be rendered at the highest level of artistic quality, the better. Much can - and should - be done in the second category, while still protecting the first category.

I for one, don't like looking at a map for hours if it's ugly 🐩
 

DWPetros

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I have seen Don's Ponyri 1st edition map and it is gorgeous. Deserves to be in the top five. The 2nd edition might be even better, I don't know because I have not seen it.
Thanks! The final map will be a doozy. Charlie took my Ver. 1 painted map, digitized and expanded it to include another 20 x 40 hexes on the south end. It's really nice.
There are a couple of final tweaks needed, but the map is otherwise good to go and the rules/scenarios are with MMP. Just need them to put the final process together. It's a bit of a monster.
 

Vic Provost

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One general comment I will make, having seen Nadir work on the Dinant map, is that I was utterly thunderstruck by the amount of detailed research he did. Nadir would send Dan and I period pictures of buildings in an individual hex, not always key buildings either and ask " What do you guys think? Level One with a Steeple or Ground Level with a Steeple?" Other questions along these lines as well. How he was able to research that town down to the building was very impressive to say the least. There were reasons that the Inn Keeper at Dinant told Dan with amazement, "You could still drive around town with this map, even though some things have changed."

I haven't been directly involved with the map work on other modules, other than a view from the bleachers as Tom worked on VOTG, but I imagine that the same considerations take place. Really fun to be a part of and watch these skilled people work.
Yeah Carl, we are involved with some truly amazing, dedicated and skilled people, no doubt about it, I just hope we are all still here after this is over.

I am truly blessed to be in this hobby at a time like this to help me take my mind off things, Vic.
 

hongkongwargamer

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One general comment I will make, having seen Nadir work on the Dinant map, is that I was utterly thunderstruck by the amount of detailed research he did. Nadir would send Dan and I period pictures of buildings in an individual hex, not always key buildings either and ask " What do you guys think? Level One with a Steeple or Ground Level with a Steeple?" Other questions along these lines as well. How he was able to research that town down to the building was very impressive to say the least. There were reasons that the Inn Keeper at Dinant told Dan with amazement, "You could still drive around town with this map, even though some things have changed."

I haven't been directly involved with the map work on other modules, other than a view from the bleachers as Tom worked on VOTG, but I imagine that the same considerations take place. Really fun to be a part of and watch these skilled people work.
Thanks to Vic for highlighting this. Seems to me that you are more likely to get this level of perfection from people who doesn't get paid, versus people who does.
 

von Marwitz

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There's also Operation Turnscrew from DFTB
12459
For those interested here are some photographs of Rees from back then:


Furthermore some contemporary photographs and information of Rees that I dug out to support the creation of this map in the following and subsequent posts linked below:



von Marwitz
 

Tuomo

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Seems to me that you are more likely to get this level of perfection from people who doesn't get paid, versus people who does.
No, I don't think that's true. Getting paid just bumps it up a notch, but if you care/are-anal, you're gonna try harder anyway.

Quick test: if you're explaining to your wife what you're working on and she doesn't ask, "Who ever's gonna notice THAT?", then you're not trying hard enough.

Quick test 2: look at the buildings on the FB maps. Buildings are a notorious PITA because they require so much more detail than anything else. Notice how much extra detail is on those buildings - all the dormers, TOR (Things On Roofs), damaged areas, little cutouts and add-ons, etc. All of that stuff doubles or triples the amount of time it takes to do each individual building. Then multiply by how many buildings there are. It's ridiculous, and there's no way to automate it.
 

hongkongwargamer

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No, I don't think that's true. Getting paid just bumps it up a notch, but if you care/are-anal, you're gonna try harder anyway.

Quick test: if you're explaining to your wife what you're working on and she doesn't ask, "Who ever's gonna notice THAT?", then you're not trying hard enough.

Quick test 2: look at the buildings on the FB maps. Buildings are a notorious PITA because they require so much more detail than anything else. Notice how much extra detail is on those buildings - all the dormers, TOR (Things On Roofs), damaged areas, little cutouts and add-ons, etc. All of that stuff doubles or triples the amount of time it takes to do each individual building. Then multiply by how many buildings there are. It's ridiculous, and there's no way to automate it.
Ah I guess Nadir is very well compensated for that Dinant map. Good for him!
 
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Yuri0352

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Quick test 2: look at the buildings on the FB maps. Buildings are a notorious PITA because they require so much more detail than anything else. Notice how much extra detail is on those buildings - all the dormers, TOR (Things On Roofs), damaged areas, little cutouts and add-ons, etc. All of that stuff doubles or triples the amount of time it takes to do each individual building. Then multiply by how many buildings there are. It's ridiculous, and there's no way to automate it.
This is exactly why I am so impressed with the maps in LFT's 'Fight for Seoul'.
 

Vic Provost

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Stay well Vic. Ann and I will do our best to do the same.
You too Carl, I sure hope to host you here in my new game room down the line, you are one of my best friends in the hobby and appreciate the kind words and the sentiments behind them, you guys are the best and have done so much for our hobby, Vic. :)
 
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