Question about Heroic Leaders

ASL Maineiac

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I'm playing VotG16 Under Murderous Fire as the Russians via VASL. By SSR, my 8-1 leader (Pavlov) is heroic. In VASL, that just means my 8-1 counter has a little orange stripe along the bottom that says "heroic." But, for my purposes it's actually considered a 1-4-9, right?

To add its heroic DRM to a FG, all this 8-1 heroic leader needs to do is add its 1 inherent firepower to the attack, right? I would give it an LMG, but that would negate the heroic DRM, correct?

So, using the LMG negates its heroic DRM and it can't use its heroic DRM with a DC, so I'm not quite sure what to do with Pavlov except use him as a normal leader, or put him in a FG for an additional -1. Any other benefits to a heroic leader I'm not gathering?
 

ASL Maineiac

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Sorry, forget to mention, per SSR, this heroic leader wounds like a leader and not a hero...so it can break, unfortunately...
I'm pretty sure I'm interpreting this SSR correctly: "The Russian 8-1 leader is Heroic, and suffers Wound Severity as a Leader (A17.11) rather than as a Hero (A15.2)."

Now I'm double guessing myself. I know leaders and heroes suffer a failed MC differently, but don't they both suffer Wound Severity the same way? When a leader fails a MC, it breaks and takes a Wound Severity dr. A Hero fails a MC it flips to wounded side and takes Wound Severity dr....So, I assumed that SSR just meant this heroic leader can break. That's right....right?
 

Mr Incredible

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A wounded hero that fails a MC is dead.

A wounded leader that rolls for a wound roll for a wound has a +1 drm.

:ciao:
 

Morbii

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What Mr. Incredible said. I was going to type it but I had to use the restroom and whatnot, so I didn't :)

Basically, he'll stick around until he fails a wound check and he can continue to rally troops. Also, since he's in Pavlov's House which is a strongpoint, he'll have 10ML and 9 once he wounds so he isn't easy to get to fail a MC either. He'll also keep his -1 Hero DRM when he wounds, where he won't keep that -1 leadership DRM (hero DRM won't help him with the rallying, though).

My suggestion is to give him an ATR. Makes for nice multi-hex firegroups of 12 hex range that still get a -1 bonus and doesn't require putting all those eggs in one basket.
 

Fort

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I'm playing VotG16 Under Murderous Fire as the Russians via VASL. By SSR, my 8-1 leader (Pavlov) is heroic. In VASL, that just means my 8-1 counter has a little orange stripe along the bottom that says "heroic." But, for my purposes it's actually considered a 1-4-9, right?

To add its heroic DRM to a FG, all this 8-1 heroic leader needs to do is add its 1 inherent firepower to the attack, right? I would give it an LMG, but that would negate the heroic DRM, correct?

So, using the LMG negates its heroic DRM and it can't use its heroic DRM with a DC, so I'm not quite sure what to do with Pavlov except use him as a normal leader, or put him in a FG for an additional -1. Any other benefits to a heroic leader I'm not gathering?
Give him a MG with another SMC manning it as well and you get full FP and the Heroic DRM.
 

ASL Maineiac

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Also, since he's in Pavlov's House which is a strongpoint, he'll have 10ML and 9 once he wounds so he isn't easy to get to fail a MC either.
Where does it say Pavlov's House is a strongpoint and affects my a leader's or a hero's morale? Also, no one answered my initial question: This is a heroic 8-1, but for my purposes, he's considered a 1-4-9, right? With 1 inherent FP and a morale of 9?

My suggestion is to give him an ATR. Makes for nice multi-hex firegroups of 12 hex range that still get a -1 bonus and doesn't require putting all those eggs in one basket.
Would be a good idea, but no ATR in my OB. I'm thinking of either having him man an LMG, which gives him 2FP flat, or as Fort mentioned giving him one of my 7-0s to man the SW with so I get the -1 hero DRM.
 

ASL Maineiac

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A wounded hero that fails a MC is dead.

A wounded leader that rolls for a wound roll for a wound has a +1 drm.
Thanks Mr. Incredible. So, a back-to-basics question. Here's how the SSR is written: ""The Russian 8-1 leader is Heroic, and suffers Wound Severity as a Leader (A17.11) rather than as a Hero (A15.2).""
What happens when this heroic 8-1 fails a MC? Does it break like a leader or just weaken, but can still move, like a hero?
 

Jazz

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Thanks Mr. Incredible. So, a back-to-basics question. Here's how the SSR is written: ""The Russian 8-1 leader is Heroic, and suffers Wound Severity as a Leader (A17.11) rather than as a Hero (A15.2).""
What happens when this heroic 8-1 fails a MC? Does it break like a leader or just weaken, but can still move, like a hero?
He wounds with anaccompanying wound severity check. If he survives that, he essentially becomes an 8 - 0 Heroic leader with a limp (Heroic ML9 -1, and the usual +1effectiveness rating modification for a wounded leader). The Hero counter sums the effects up nicely.

The big difference the SSR brings to the table is that the heroic leader will not die automatically on the 2nd wound as he would without the SSR.
 

Fort

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Thanks Mr. Incredible. So, a back-to-basics question. Here's how the SSR is written: ""The Russian 8-1 leader is Heroic, and suffers Wound Severity as a Leader (A17.11) rather than as a Hero (A15.2).""
What happens when this heroic 8-1 fails a MC? Does it break like a leader or just weaken, but can still move, like a hero?
He suffers wound severity as a Leader...so...the 1st time he fails a MC he wounds, and a normal Wound severity DR is made...the second, and subsequent failures of MC's he ROLLS for Wound severity as a Leader with a +1 DRM for being wounded already, instead of being eliminated as a Hero.
 
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ASL Maineiac

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He suffers wound severity as a Leader...so...the 1st time he fails a MC he wounds, and a normal Wound severity DR is made...the second, and subsequent failures of MC's he ROLLS for Wound severity as a Leader with a +1 DRM for being wounded already, instead of being eliminated as a Hero.
Thanks, everybody. I got it now. I was just confused on whether or not he breaks like a leader, or only wounds like a leader.

Why wasn't a hero counter just included in the OB with an SSR about him wounding like a leader? Seems like that would have been easier.

BTW, anyone know how this is reflected in VASL? I have the 8-1 counter with the orange heroic strip along the bottom. Are there other counters out there to help me keep track of his heroic ML, etc.?
 

Fort

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Thanks, everybody. I got it now. I was just confused on whether or not he breaks like a leader, or only wounds like a leader.

Why wasn't a hero counter just included in the OB with an SSR about him wounding like a leader? Seems like that would have been easier.

BTW, anyone know how this is reflected in VASL? I have the 8-1 counter with the orange heroic strip along the bottom. Are there other counters out there to help me keep track of his heroic ML, etc.?
Because a Hero would not be able to do all the things a leader can...Rally troops, direct fire, etc.
 

KenYoung

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Could you elect to have your 8-1 heroic Leader fire a LMG but by choosing to fire at ½ FP (instead of Case D firing at full FP and add +1) still qualify the Fire Group for the heroic -1 DRM?
 

Morbii

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Where does it say Pavlov's House is a strongpoint and affects my a leader's or a hero's morale? Also, no one answered my initial question: This is a heroic 8-1, but for my purposes, he's considered a 1-4-9, right? With 1 inherent FP and a morale of 9?
SSR 2 says it's a strongpoint (the same SSR that makes the Leader heroic).

And yes, he's essentially a 1-4-9 (or10 when in the strongpoint).
 

ASL Maineiac

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SSR 2 says it's a strongpoint (the same SSR that makes the Leader heroic).
We must be looking at different scenarios. I'm playing VotG16 Under Murderous Fire. SSR 2 only says the Russian leader is heroic - nothing about Pavlov's House being a strongpoint.

And, speaking of strongpoints, where in the rules do they show up? I can't find rules for strongpoints anywhere...
 

Morbii

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Oh :O I assumed you were playing "Pavlov's House" - there's a Heroic 8-1 in there also (I forgot about the scenario mention in the original post!). My bad.

The Fanatic Strongpoint rules are one of the CG SSR.
 

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I thought the question was good stuff from being a heroic leader. Not breaking ... that can be bad, very bad.
 

Morbii

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I thought the question was good stuff from being a heroic leader. Not breaking ... that can be bad, very bad.
Double-edged sword. It can be very bad, but it can also be very good - depends on the situation (though, grant it, I agree that it's almost always bad) :)
 
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