Opening a can of worms: Advice on the Quality of Critical Hit Games

[RobZagnut]

You people listing favorite CH products are mental. Absolutely freakin mental.

Only in ASL can a company publish cr@p or renamed/stolen items without paying royalties to designers 3 out of 4 times, but that one time keeps you coming back for more. If this company was an auto, restaurant, author, musician, bank, etc, etc they would be shunned and would have gone out of business long ago. But come up with 1 decent product out of 4 and everything is okay. Un freakin believable.

Did CH rip off TOT scenarios or not?

Then why are you having a conversation about which CH product to buy? The answer should be ZERO! If you support CH you are supporting a thief. The answer should be ZERO!

 

[Gunner Scott]

always good times watching a Wolkey meltdown. lol

Seriously though, if you really really want that latest CH product, give your money to a vender like Gamers Armory not to the rat.


Scott

 

[Hutch]

The only problem to that is the vendor has to buy from the rat. Now if the vendor buys but does not sell, he may think twice about buying from the rat again.

 

[william.stoppel]

You can always just buy from eBay. The Hero Pax, Aussie Packs, Rout Pack etc is all good and usually available on eBay at a good/reasonable price at least once a month (if Gamers Armory is out of course).

 

[xenovin]

Did CH rip off TOT scenarios or not?

If you use variant geo boards and change around some of the scenario data (and present in a different format style), is that the same scenario? A lawyer (which I am not) will probably tell you it is not the same product. Now if on your farm you put a wig and dress on you pig, is it still a pig? Well this is the gray area you are talking about!

 

[RobZagnut]

If you use variant geo boards and change around some of the scenario data (and present in a different format style), is that the same scenario? A lawyer (which I am not) will probably tell you it is not the same product. Now if on your farm you put a wig and dress on you pig, is it still a pig? Well this is the gray area you are talking about!

What are you talking about? CH stated they were reprinting the TOT scenarios and they did.

 

[xenovin]

What are you talking about? CH stated they were reprinting the TOT scenarios and they did.

read this: http://www.desperationmorale.com/products/across-the-aller-i/

CH made some changes so that it is not a 1:1 copy. So from a legal stand point it is not the same product but to the player on the street it is a rip off. So it is but it isn't. Unethical but probably not illegal or at least would be hard to win in court (but read above - I'm not a lawyer).

 

[RobZagnut]

read this: http://www.desperationmorale.com/products/across-the-aller-i/

CH made some changes so that it is not a 1:1 copy. So from a legal stand point it is not the same product but to the player on the street it is a rip off. So it is but it isn't. Unethical but probably not illegal or at least would be hard to win in court (but read above - I'm not a lawyer).

The orginal advertisement for the Aller packs was that it was going to be a straight reprint (tribute) to the TOT scenarios. This advertisement was copied and posted on GS, so there is evidence. Only after CH received criticism from many sources did they change some of the wording on the scenarios.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a lawyer to know that I can't change the title and names of the Lord of The Rings books and characters, and publish my own Darkone of the Rings trilogy and not expect to get sued if someone has the resources and/or willingness to pursure it.

 

[rdw5150]

read this: http://www.desperationmorale.com/products/across-the-aller-i/

CH made some changes so that it is not a 1:1 copy. So from a legal stand point it is not the same product but to the player on the street it is a rip off. So it is but it isn't. Unethical but probably not illegal or at least would be hard to win in court (but read above - I'm not a lawyer).

While I do not know if it is truly illegal (my guess is that it is not even worth the $$ to pursue) what I do know is it is unethical. For me that is enough to close the book on any future CH products (not that I bought many over the past 5 years).

Peace

Roger

 

[ZenRiver]

While I do not know if it is truly illegal (my guess is that it is not even worth the $$ to pursue) what I do know is it is unethical. For me that is enough to close the book on any future CH products (not that I bought many over the past 5 years).

Peace

Roger

Evil always wins, when good men do nothing.

Nuff said there.

 

[horseshoe]

I haven't purchased a CH product since the late 90's and I certainly won't in the future..

 

[AZslim]

My take on CH. FWIW....

Ray learned early on that a pretty map and counters will sell. Period. That is what he produces. The rules and scenarios are thrown together. If they work, fine, if they don't he doesn't care, because people are paying him to play test for him and given his volume, a few might just work.

There is a market of folks who will literally buy anything ASL....especially if it has pretty maps and counters. That is what he has tapped into. He cranks out in volume so he can gain virtual shelf space at on line and brick and mortar game stores.

If you are interested buying a fun, well play tested game.....do your homework well.

I don't care what people spend their money on, but what frustrates me is that if people would quit enabling him, he would be forced to produce good products....and he has the resources to make some really nice stuff. That is why I refuse to buy anything from him or anybody that will indirectly put money in his pocket. It's nothing personal. In fact I admire him. He has figured out how to fleece money from arguably one of the most intelligent segments of the population.

 

[RobZagnut]

Roger, Zen, Slim & Horeshoe,

Truer words...

What gets me is what some people say to justify buying from a thief.

* If you buy it on eBay or Gamers Armory it's not going to CH.
* Its a Dave Lamb module not a CH one.
* Buy the early CH stuff it's okay because he didn't screw anyone then.
* If enough people complain maybe he will change.
* Some of the words are different so it's okay. Ha!
* But it's on a cool battle that no one else has published.
* I have to fill my collection.

 

[Darrell Andersen]

Meh. I've enjoyed some CH material. That being said, not a penny of my money has gone (directly or indirectly) for their products since early in the 2nd Clinton administration I'm guessing.

We're talking little pieces of cardboard and paper maps. No point in getting too worked up about any of it. Now here's the key: IMO,YMMV. To quote the great, late 20th century philosopher Shock G/Humpty Hump "Do watchya like".

 

[ZenRiver]

Meh. I've enjoyed some CH material. That being said, not a penny of my money has gone (directly or indirectly) for their products since early in the 2nd Clinton administration I'm guessing.

We're talking little pieces of cardboard and paper maps. No point in getting too worked up about any of it. Now here's the key: IMO,YMMV. To quote the great, late 20th century philosopher Shock G/Humpty Hump "Do watchya like".

Such attitudes are why the world is broken on the level that it is.

I'm sure all those men who died in WW2 would be impressed at such moral stature as the world embraces today.

 

[Jeffrey D Myers]

Such attitudes are why the world is broken on the level that it is.

With a name like ZenRiver, I'd think that you'd be blaming samsara....

 

[Pitman]

The Desperation Morale website, despite your impression, has the best evaluations of Critical Hit products. It points out the relatively few good products, the many bad products, and all of the blatant rip-offs that range from stealing other people's ideas to playtesting and development issues. It also tries to identify CH products that are nothing but renamed cannibalized versions of previous products.

However, the points that many people here have raised are valid. CH does not only produce a great deal of substandard work, they typically do so at price-gouging prices and they also have many ethical issues attached to them.

For someone looking to build a collection of ASL stuff, CH should be an option of last resort rather than first resort, for both playability and moral reasons.

 

[kynken]

The Desperation Morale website, despite your impression, has the best evaluations of Critical Hit products. It points out the relatively few good products, the many bad products, and all of the blatant rip-offs that range from stealing other people's ideas to playtesting and development issues. It also tries to identify CH products that are nothing but renamed cannibalized versions of previous products.

However, the points that many people here have raised are valid. CH does not only produce a great deal of substandard work, they typically do so at price-gouging prices and they also have many ethical issues attached to them.

For someone looking to build a collection of ASL stuff, CH should be an option of last resort rather than first resort, for both playability and moral reasons.

I kind of like this response.

 

[Darrell Andersen]

Such attitudes are why the world is broken on the level that it is.

I'm sure all those men who died in WW2 would be impressed at such moral stature as the world embraces today.

That is one impressive leap right there.

 

[Jazz]

That is one impressive leap right there.

Indeed.

Truth, Justice, and the American way and how that relates to if/how one obtains CH products......