Matt Book said:
The Finns are tough in the game because they have to take on hordes of Russians. 12 Finnish 4-4-7's aren't gonna last long against those 26 Russian 4-4-7's. I don't care how well you ski. It's trying to strike a balance in the game mechanics and playability. This the same with the American 6-6-6's who have the same morale as Italians. While the Marines are morale 8. They are morale 8 because of the Japs who step reduce instead of just break. It gives the Marines the ability to hang in there as they whittle the Japs down. Just like Russian using the red TH numbers. It's there to let the Germans survive the game better, because there is usually so fewer of them. You can find these historical indiscrepancies all over. A Russian HMG/MMG with portage capicty of 5 ? Yeah maybe in buildings and woods, but it has wheels. It is going to carry faster then any other MG in open ground while troops are moving. Leave the Finns be......
Ok, Matt this is all not quite accurate. Yes it is a game. I know, been playing it for almost 26 years.
The problem with design by theater approach that you and others are advocating is that it kills off the 'What if?' type scenarios. A big draw of Third Reich was the ‘what if’ nature of it. I think design should focus on more historical factors.
What Mark is referring to is that there are many scenarios that use 666 squads to fight the Japs – these scenarios work. And yes if you replaced Marines with 666 troops a scenario would be out of balance – no duh and really beside the point . The rational that you have to have 8 morale troops to fight them because they step-reduce is called circular reasoning.
The Marines did have a strong fighting spirit. However, the claim that they received better training is questionable. There were just as many three week wonders in the Marines as the regular Army.
The Maxim PM 1910 machine gun to which you are referring did have wheels, though the Finns typically removed them and placed them on tripods. The wheels made it more difficult to move by infantry than other MG designs that could be divided up more evenly. All accounts I have read make 5 pp seem light for this sucker.
Russian use red to hit numbers because of poor optics and poor training -- a nation of illiterate peasants provided their manpower base.
The point I was trying to make about the Finns is that given the advantages they had, any Western European power would have made as good a showing under the same circumstances -- even the French! :cheeky: Ok, well maybe not.
I agree with Fezziwig's analysis as well. It matches my reading of the Winter War and the tactics the Finns used. The Russians had a big problem keeping their tanks supported by infantry. It wasn't until the Feburary offensive they figured this out.
Ron, just because someone strives for more realism does not make them a bullet counter. This is Squad leader not D&D on a hex map. :cheeky: Robin's explanation of a 447 with an inherent 8-1 could certainly make sense for some applications - at least in the Winter War. Because the Finns are represented by regular German units in the Continuance war it also works. This was the kind of explanation I was looking for – sometimes a question is just a question without any ulterior motive.
I think that an 8 morale is too high for the bulk of the Finnish Army – a country with mandatory conscription no less. A 4 ELR works to simulate their strong fighting spirit. I think that an 8 morale should only be assigned to truly elite units.
One last point here -- a unit making a beach assault is treated as Fanatic G14.32 which does raise their morale by one and exempts them from cowering. This gives a Marine unit a 9 morale. I don’t have a problem giving the Marines 8 morale, I just think that the Rangers should probably have been given that as well and maybe some units from the 101st and 82nd Airborne. A 668 ranger squad without the underlined morale would be more believable, IMHO.
