Bocage LOS

[Steven Pleva]

Playing last night a couple of questions came up regarding Bocage LOS. The way I had always played was challenged. I did a quick search and found nothing. Apologies if this was answered before.

Is the LOS blocked for either or both of 1 or 2? If 2 is blocked, but 1 is not then how far away from the vertex does it have to be in order to block? This would seem to be problematic from an implementation POV.

Now consider LOS 3 assuming the hedge does not exist and compare that to LOS 1. Would LOS 3 be blocked?

Thanks,
Steve

 

[jrv]

My understanding is that because the one vertex is in the viewing/target hex, the wall/hedge hexside is part of the viewing/target hex. LOS past such a hexspine wall/hedge has no effect unless the LOS goes exactly down the hexspine, e.g. R3/R4 relative to Q4 in your illustration, per B9.2. In B9.52 LOS exactly down the hexspine in such a situation is blocked, but otherwise LOS remains the same as wall/hedge, i.e. unaffected.

JR

 

[volgaG68]

My opponents and I have always played per B9.1; the depiction itself, along with the hexside and vertices, blocks LOS. We would play that #1 and #2 are blocked for this reason (the scrap of depiction crossed is not part of the target/viewing hex), but #3 is clear due to the depiction crossed being part of the target/viewing hex.

 

[von Marwitz]

My opponents and I have always played per B9.1; the depiction itself, along with the hexside and vertices, blocks LOS. We would play that #1 and #2 are blocked for this reason (the scrap of depiction crossed is not part of the target/viewing hex), but #3 is clear due to the depiction crossed being part of the target/viewing hex.

That's how I have played it, too.

von Marwitz

 

[klasmalmstrom]

If the LOS crosses the Bocage in hex O4, I think #3 is blocked as well.

 

[zgrose]

I believe I've asked Perry this before (but I can't find my email) that the thickness of the graphic matters. So my understanding is as volgaG68 states. I'm not a fan of the ruling as it seems a bit inconsistent (the graphic does matter outside the line, but the graphic doesn't matter when the wall graphic doesn't run all the way to the vertex).

 

[Steven Pleva]

If the LOS crosses the Bocage in hex O4, I think #3 is blocked as well.

This is making less sense to me. Let's make sure we are talking the same thing with a cleaner graphic. I could see how pie slice A is out of LOS. I've never played it that way, but I can see it. Are you saying that you think pie slice B is also out of LOS? If so, I think there is a problem here...

Steve
View attachment 52374

 

[clubby]

I love these threads!

A made a post but I deleted it because I don't know anything about anything, but B9.521 covers Hexside LOS for Bocage and it doesn't seem to jive with a lot of the answers being provided in this thread.

 

[Rock SgtDan]

Playing last night a couple of questions came up regarding Bocage LOS.

The interaction between which rules is being debated here?
People have mentioned B9.1, B9.2, and B9.52.

Graphics are fuzzy. Its much easier to judge touching/crossing the hexside line or vertex point.

What is the maximum magnification a player is permitted use, in either case? Need to make sure both players have equal visual acuity.

 

[clubby]

......................

 

[bendizoid]

Ever since Rich Summers burned me with a HD tank on the 'short' side of the vertex I have played depiction. It's on the first page of section B.

 

[Rock SgtDan]

A player's visual acuity has nothing to do with the rules. A rule isn't a rule or not a rule simply because you happen to have poor vision.

Playability has a lot to do with vision.

 

[clubby]

.............................

 

[Doug Kirk]

My understanding is that because the one vertex is in the viewing/target hex, the wall/hedge hexside is part of the viewing/target hex. LOS past such a hexspine wall/hedge has no effect unless the LOS goes exactly down the hexspine, e.g. R3/R4 relative to Q4 in your illustration, per B9.2. In B9.52 LOS exactly down the hexspine in such a situation is blocked, but otherwise LOS remains the same as wall/hedge, i.e. unaffected.

JR

This was how I always played. All 3 are open LOS.

 

[clubby]

We must be using a different rule book?

 

[jrv]

We must be using a different rule book?

I hope so. I don't loan mine out.

JR

 

[clubby]

I hope so. I don't loan mine out.

JR

Har dee har har. :laugh:

Seriously, according to the way B9.521 reads, none of those examples in the first picture have LOS [EXC: Wall Advantage].

 

[jrv]

Har dee har har. :laugh:

Seriously, according to the way B9.521 reads, none of those examples in the first picture have LOS [EXC: Wall Advantage].

It depends on whether you read "LOS traced along a bocage hexspine" to include artwork or not. I read it as literally straight down the hexspine and no other way. Per B9.1 a hexside includes both the hex grid overlay and the artwork. There is no comparable rule for hexspines that I am aware of. But perhaps that is what was intended.

JR

 

[jrv]

In LOS #2, assume this is not bocage (i.e. everything is hedges) and the N3/M4 hexside is clear. Would a shot into M4 get the +1 hedge TEM?

JR

 

[clubby]

It depends on whether you read "LOS traced along a bocage hexspine" to include artwork or not. I read it as literally straight down the hexspine and no other way. Per B9.1 a hexside includes both the hex grid overlay and the artwork. There is no comparable rule for hexspines that I am aware of. But perhaps that is what was intended.

JR

OK, I see what you're saying and what the question is. How we play it, LOS would be blocked to 2 and not blocked to 1 and 3 due to the Bocage being at least in the spirit of the rules part of the hexside of the target hex. We've never come up against this exact situation which is probably due to only a small amount of Bocage play.