Favorite SW and Ordnance in ASL,and why?

[Brian W]

the actual TK DR required is typically 1 more pip than an LMG shot - making it a bit more likely to get an effect with the ATR. That said, the LMG has the possibility of an ROF 2nd shot that the ATR never gets.

The ATR is much more effective against armor than just the extra penetration:
* A Final TK DR = the Final TK# automatically Immobilizes or Shocks, unlike an MG where it will only Stun
* A Final TK DR 1 > the Final TK# is a possible Shock, unlike an MG which gets nothing
* An ATR can Deliberately Immobilize an enemy AFV (a change to the ASLRB that I vehemently disagreed with), which an MG cannot do
* An ATR can get a CH, which an MG cannot achieve, making it possible to burn a King Tiger with an ATR, IIRC

The MG is, of course, much more effective against infantry, and better all around, but the AT effectiveness clearly goes to the ATR by a mile.

 

[witchbottles]

The ATR is much more effective against armor than just the extra penetration:
* A Final TK DR = the Final TK# automatically Immobilizes or Shocks, unlike an MG where it will only Stun
* A Final TK DR 1 > the Final TK# is a possible Shock, unlike an MG which gets nothing
* An ATR can Deliberately Immobilize an enemy AFV (a change to the ASLRB that I vehemently disagreed with), which an MG cannot do
* An ATR can get a CH, which an MG cannot achieve, making it possible to burn a King Tiger with an ATR, IIRC

The MG is, of course, much more effective against infantry, and better all around, but the AT effectiveness clearly goes to the ATR by a mile.

completely agree with all the above. That said, (and as I noted above) - the LMG has the possibility of another shot on an ROF that an ATR can never achieve - ATRs get one and one only shot per player turn, maximum.

 

[von Marwitz]

for a bolt action overgrown rifle, the 12 range makes them rather nice at times.

Give an ATR to a hero and by this extend the heroic -1 DRM out to a range of 12 hexes. This matches very well with a German MMG a Squad possesses that the hero is stacked with.

von Marwitz

 

[Brian W]

ATRs get one and one only shot per player turn, maximum.

Unless they have ROF like the Japanese or Finnish ATRs.

Sorry, I'm being pedantic.

 

[von Marwitz]

Unless they have ROF like the Japanese or Finnish ATRs.

Sorry, I'm being pedantic.

While we are at it:
Only 20L ATRs may target Guns as only this type of ATR is allowed to use HE Equivalency. So if targetting a Gun, you can only score a CH with 20L ATRs. Regular ATRs would have to fire at Guns as IFE.

von Marwitz

 

[Paul M. Weir]

My favourite SW, the US 60mm Lt MTR in 1945, high ROF and can fire WP.

That and the French version. That multiple such (3) US versions can be exchanged for an OBA module is to my mind a very minor attribute as I am rarely tempted even when I have 3+ US 60mm.

The real advantage to the to the 60mm is that it is no harder to move than some 50mm rivals or a HMG, yet still has effects 1 column higher both in normal fire (4 vs 2) and with a Critical Hit (16 vs 12). That brings it more into the class of "Pocket Artillery" than its rivals.

 

[Justiciar]

...That multiple such (3) US versions can be exchanged for an OBA module is to my mind a very minor attribute as I am rarely tempted even when I have 3+ US 60mm....

I think breakpoint on this is two fold. a) the field phone option, which can help foil OPFOR...b) 1945 and then massed WP fires. It is plausible to reduce or eliminate or mitigate when in counters form, even if the 3 fold form...but hidden via field phone, the effect can be better. But is not* an automatic call, I agree.

 

[thedrake]

<<<the LMG has the possibility of another shot on an ROF>>>

Thought MG's lost ROF when used as ordnance vs armor....which rule should I reference,since I am now sure I am wrong???

 

[jrv]

<<<the LMG has the possibility of another shot on an ROF>>>

Thought MG's lost ROF when used as ordnance vs armor....which rule should I reference,since I am now sure I am wrong???

There is no rule to reference. MGs have ROF [A9.2], and there is no rule that takes that away when used as ordnance.

JR

 

[Paul M. Weir]

There is no restriction on MGs except it must be in Normal range and must be able to fire at Full firepower (A9.61). So Subsequent Fire or any requirement for application of Area Fire is out. Similarly non-Opportunity Fire in the Advanced Phase is not allowed.

Firing at a Concealed vehicle is OK because that is governed by ordnance rules and a +2 TH modifier, but is not itself Area Fire, though if firing at a soft target in the same circumstances it would be Area Fire. Confusing?

A retained RoF weapon is, for all purposes that I can think of, no different to a weapon that has not yet fired.

At least that is my understanding, though despite having had ASL for 30 years, I still get many things wrong.

 

[jrv]

A retained RoF weapon is, for all purposes that I can think of, no different to a weapon that has not yet fired.

If a weapon fires in the PFPh & retains ROF, it (its possessing unit) still may not move in the MPh nor fire in the AFPh.

JR

 

[Paul M. Weir]

If a weapon fires in the PFPh & retains ROF, it (its possessing unit) still may not move in the MPh nor fire in the AFPh.

JR

True, but I was thinking about Fire options.

 

[jrv]

True, but I was thinking about Fire options.

Its CA may be restricted. Please don't make me think any more.

JR

 

[witchbottles]

I think breakpoint on this is two fold. a) the field phone option, which can help foil OPFOR...b) 1945 and then massed WP fires. It is plausible to reduce or eliminate or mitigate when in counters form, even if the 3 fold form...but hidden via field phone, the effect can be better. But is not* an automatic call, I agree.

my view is the OBA being American will not double red at a higher probability than it would roll a 12 and malf the mtr. OBA DRs of 6,6 have no effect on the weapon.

 

[jrv]

my view is the OBA being American will not double red at a higher probability than it would roll a 12 and malf the mtr. OBA DRs of 6,6 have no effect on the weapon.

A twelve DR has a very bad effect on a field phone, however.

JR

 

[Brian W]

Firing at a Concealed vehicle is OK because that is governed by ordnance rules and a +2 TH modifier, but is not itself Area Fire,

There's a Q&A from a couple of years ago that disallows firing MG as ordnance at concealed vehicles, so this is no longer the case.

 

[thedrake]

Thanks to JR and Paul for clarifying ROF on MG's vs armor. As it turned out I played this correctly in a tourney scenario a few years back when this came up as a question. G30 Morgan's Stand and I was the Americans, used the MMG in upper level of 10AA7 to knock out the German HT in DFF, took 2 shots to do it as kept ROF on the MG and the HT expended 2MP in MG's LOS at range of two hexes. Guess the question stuck in my mind that maybe we did this wrong.

 

[Eagle4ty]

.... Regular ATRs would have to fire at Guns as IFE.

von Marwitz

Well not exactly as IFE, but as small arms. If they were able to fire as IFE they then could fire at guns as ordnance. I know what you meant, but just being a PITA by noting attention to detail.:study:

 

[BattleSchool]

How about a NahverteidigungSWaffe?

I know, I know, its not ordnance, but neither are MG/AA Guns that fire as IFE. The close-defence weapon arguably has more in common with inherent SW than with any other type of weapon, as it's always subject to availability at a particular point in time. Nevertheless...

1. Smoke on anywhere from a usage DR of 6 to 8; and
2. a 16-flat IFT attack in CC on a usage DR of 7 to 9 (A11.622).

Infantry gotta respect the sN9 that comes standard with PzKpw IVJ, PzKpfw VIB, StuG IIIG (L), StuH 42 (L), Sturmtiger, JgdPz IV/70, JgdPzV, and JgdPz VI.

 

[von Marwitz]

Well not exactly as IFE, but as small arms. If they were able to fire as IFE they then could fire at guns as ordnance. I know what you meant, but just being a PITA by noting attention to detail.:study:

Rightly so.

When I wrote this, I knew it was not 'right' but for the love of gawd could not remember 'small arms'...

von Marwitz