Wooden Infantry Bridges

Tuomo

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Reading through B6, the rules don't seem to handle this kind of bridge very well:

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To me, this is a wooden foot bridge, one level above the Stream, not connecting to a Road. What you would typically see in wilderness areas. But B6 doesn't seem to play nice with these concepts all at once, and I'm wondering whether the required SSR verbiage is so painful that I might as well scrap it and turn it into a regular Stone bridge with a road. Which sucks.

Like, I'm hesitant to invoke B6.44 Foot Bridges because they're a subset of Pontoon Bridges, which allow infantry to basically sashay across the stream without lining up with the bridge exit/entrance hex, and that's just not correct for this kind of thing.

And yet, the concept of Bridge entrance/exit hexes seems tied to "Road", and there's no Road here. In fact, even if there isn't, B6.1 says, "...Bridges usable by vehicles always connect directly to any adjacent road to which the bridge depiction points, and are considered an extension of that road.", which seems to mean that even though there's no Road connecting B5 to C5 below, the rules say there has to be:

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Which is just dumb. I'm not making up some kind of bizarro terrain that doesn't exist anywhere but in my fevered imagination; these things are everywhere. So how in the world was B6 written to force non-Pontoon bridges to have Roads? More importantly, what's an elegant way to implement these kinds of bridges in a nice tight SSR? Basically I'm shooting for a standard bridge without a Road. I think it should have the standard LOS characteristics - be a hindrance if the LOS crosses the bridge, unless it goes straight down the axis of the bridge.

One could say "This bridge is not 'usable by vehicles', but that would negate Motorcycles and Bicycles, which I think would be wrong. Hell, a Kubelwagon could give it a whirl. But how to get around the verbiage that basically says the LOS straight down the bridge is clear if it's on a Road? Just say, "LOS along and across the Bridge is treated as if there were a Road on the Bridge"?

Weird, weird, weird.
 

klasmalmstrom

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One of the Swedish Volunteers just made the Foot Bridge at the same Level as the surrounding terrain, i.e., not at water level...

"Foot Bridges (B6.44) are at Level 0 and have a COT of 1 MF."

Could be a start and add something about Hindrance.
 

Tuomo

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And I see that I was wrong about the LOS being unhindered if it goes down the road. It's actually unhindered if if goes through Road hexsides, which is much more forgiving. Not like LOS down an Orchard-Road.
 

Tuomo

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And I see that I was wrong about the LOS being unhindered if it goes down the road. It's actually unhindered if if goes through Road hexsides, which is much more forgiving. Not like LOS down an Orchard-Road.
Actually, I need to ask about this. B6.2 says, "However, a non-pontoon bridge does Hinder any LOS drawn through it between units which are at the same level as the Bridge or units only one of which is below the level of the Bridge (unless that LOS is traced only through the road depiction of the Bridge).... Bridge counters are Inherent Terrain (B.6) but LOS into/through its hex does not incur the Bridge Hindrance/TEM if it crosses only road hexsides (exclusive of vertices) of that hex."

Aren't these two sentences contradictory? The first one seems to say that (non-pontoon) Bridges are not Hindrances if the LOS is traced only through the road depiction of the Bridge. The second one says road hexside (exclusive of vertices)... but only for a Bridge counter...

Ohh, wow. I get it. That second sentence really does refer only to Bridge counters, because you only need those when there's no Bridge & Road artwork on the map. That's why Bridge counters are Inherent Terrain.

Ahhh, so.

OK, you can move about your days, People. Nothing to see here! All is well! (Except of course that the original problem of bridges-without-roads still remains, but whatever)
 

Larry

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Hexsides is too broad and includes the vertices. I think something about entering the entrance/exit of the artwork would capture more of the unhindered nature of that shot as OG.
 

'Ol Fezziwig

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Hexsides is too broad and includes the vertices. I think something about entering the entrance/exit of the artwork would capture more of the unhindered nature of that shot as OG.
... fair enough: could go with 'LOS through bridge artwork'
 

Gordon

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Given the relative lightness of their construction (and narrowness compared to even a one lane road bridge) it might be simpler to just go with a +1 hindrance for any same level or continuous slope LOS that crosses the bridge artwork.
 

GeorgeBates

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Given the relative lightness of their construction (and narrowness compared to even a one lane road bridge) it might be simpler to just go with a +1 hindrance for any same level or continuous slope LOS that crosses the bridge artwork.
or none at all
 

Scott_Blanton

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Just thinking out loud, but I wonder if the bridge pictured is too small to be represented on a map. Here in NC we would call the water a creek. It does not appear to be but a couple feet across. Seems like you could jump/step over it. How wide is the bridge, 5 ft? Would that be represented in a 40 meter hex or would it be abstracted?
 

Tuomo

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... fair enough: could go with 'LOS through bridge artwork'
Given the relative lightness of their construction (and narrowness compared to even a one lane road bridge) it might be simpler to just go with a +1 hindrance for any same level or continuous slope LOS that crosses the bridge artwork.
Except the "bridge artwork" includes the part along the ground that shouldn't hinder LOS; the LOS from B5-D4 in the original post should not be hindered, but it does cross the bridge artwork.
 
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Tuomo

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Just thinking out loud, but I wonder if the bridge pictured is too small to be represented on a map. Here in NC we would call the water a creek. It does not appear to be but a couple feet across. Seems like you could jump/step over it. How wide is the bridge, 5 ft? Would that be represented in a 40 meter hex or would it be abstracted?
Fine. How about THIS one?
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The bridge may not be wide side-to-side, but I'm talking about crossing gaps end-to-end that are basically Depressions in ASL terms. Things that are significant enough to be militarily useful. Sure, it's a spectrum of things in reality, but I think the B6 Bridge rules are surprisingly blind to non-Road footbridges above the water like this.
 

Tuomo

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One of the Swedish Volunteers just made the Foot Bridge at the same Level as the surrounding terrain, i.e., not at water level...

"Foot Bridges (B6.44) are at Level 0 and have a COT of 1 MF."

Could be a start and add something about Hindrance.
Except Foot Bridges have that damnable property of Pontoon Bridges, of having no Exit or Entrance hexsides.
 

Gordon

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But my point was that these are such (relatively) minor things that unless we go with a 12 page RB section devoted to all the different styles, construction materials, height above the depression, width, length, etc., etc., etc. A "simple" rule that abstractly covers the situation of a method for infantry to cross a depression at reduced MF and increased vulnerability will probably suffice. The HASL covering the "Battle of Shady Creek Footbridge" can add in all the gory details.
 

Tuomo

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But that small bridge in the pictures seems to me like they should not have that...
I don't see how? To me, you can't use that bridge without entering/exiting the ends. But I think the same thing about pontoon bridges and the rules are pretty clear there.
 
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