VotGs CG IV Holst - Miller

[Honza]

I find it wierd that these weaknesses in the CG were not found in the playtesting. After all Tom spent ages preparing this module. It must have seen a lot of playtesting - otherwise where did all the time go. I'm sorry to hear that the fortifications are so costly. I was hoping they might be a saving grace for the Russians.

Is there nothing the Russian can do to turn the CG in his favor?

 

[janusz.maxe]

The combination of light mortars, boobytraps, high SAN and IIFT was at times close to counter the death stars in upper levels. 3 or 4 mortars could have such a rof tear that at times there was only a HS or two left afterwards, giving the russian 6 CVP in one shootout. But sadly, no HMGs were destroyed, so a 8-1 and the squads he just rallied could sprint over there and man them again in a turn or two. But the German AT-plt is the best. Four 75mm guns with smoke!!!

Janusz

 

[Morbii]

I find it wierd that these weaknesses in the CG were not found in the playtesting. After all Tom spent ages preparing this module. It must have seen a lot of playtesting - otherwise where did all the time go. I'm sorry to hear that the fortifications are so costly. I was hoping they might be a saving grace for the Russians.

Is there nothing the Russian can do to turn the CG in his favor?

I think the weaknesses are highly overexaggerated, personally. I think Scott likely could have even come close to winning the CG in scenario 2 given Bob's purchase admissions if he'd simply done a night counter-attack. The amount of damage a Russian attacker can do to a German defender at night in VotG is not to be taken lightly in any way. 100% lax stacks (EXC: single hero) vs a mostly stealthy and cloaked attacking force in that ugly terrain is absurd, especially if that attacking force knows their way around night.

 

[Honza]

I think the weaknesses are highly overexaggerated, personally. I think Scott likely could have even come close to winning the CG in scenario 2 given Bob's purchase admissions if he'd simply done a night counter-attack. The amount of damage a Russian attacker can do to a German defender at night in VotG is not to be taken lightly in any way. 100% lax stacks (EXC: single hero) vs a mostly stealthy and cloaked attacking force in that ugly terrain is absurd, especially if that attacking force knows their way around night.

So you think the night attacks are the key to Russian victory?

 

[janusz.maxe]

Yes, and stil, you can hardly find any CG AARs where the Soviets claim any major victory during a night attack. I think it's due to
a) Once claoking is lost, it becomes very hard to push on and attack any secondary German line or reinforcing troop.
b) No firegroups means the low Soviet FP.
c) There are few dummy cloaking counters to go around, and as soon as the Soviets fire the loose their biggest advantage.
d) German concealment at night is very good even without HIP, and if an attack runs into a stack of 2 counters revealed to be 8-1, 8-3-8/MMG, 8-3-8/MMG it's stopped cold.
e) The minimal routing at night makes the shortage of Soviet leaders and the abundance of German ones even more telling.

At two times the I lost key terrain to the Germans at night when he manages to get major forces activated plus adding off board reinforcements in secondary front areas.
Janusz

 

[Morbii]

So you think the night attacks are the key to Russian victory?

A major one, yes.

Other points to consider:
- Russian night attacks can be instrumental to making sure soviet vehicles can be salvaged and German ones cannot
- the initial Russian night attack can be absurdly powerful: two new guards companies paired against a force that will look almost the same as the remnants of the one you just squared off against.
- the Germans only get half CPP. This is huge. Yes, the Russian gets half on the next day, but they've already put their half to good use and the tables have now evened CPP-wise.

 

[Morbii]

Yes, and stil, you can hardly find any CG AARs where the Soviets claim any major victory during a night attack. I think it's due to
a) Once claoking is lost, it becomes very hard to push on and attack any secondary German line or reinforcing troop.
b) No firegroups means the low Soviet FP.
c) There are few dummy cloaking counters to go around, and as soon as the Soviets fire the loose their biggest advantage.
d) German concealment at night is very good even without HIP, and if an attack runs into a stack of 2 counters revealed to be 8-1, 8-3-8/MMG, 8-3-8/MMG it's stopped cold.
e) The minimal routing at night makes the shortage of Soviet leaders and the abundance of German ones even more telling.

At two times the I lost key terrain to the Germans at night when he manages to get major forces activated plus adding off board reinforcements in secondary front areas.
Janusz

B applies to the Germans as well, particularly if the stack is one unit strong.
I'm not sure where C came from. Unless you were horrible at minimizing losses, you should have plenty. If you're cloaked and firing enough to have it be brought up as a valid argument, you're almost certainly doing it wrong.
As D mentions, you might be in trouble. Those types of stacks will be minimal, however, and are generally avoidable.
As far as E, if you're maneuvering right, it will quite possibly be the Germans breaking more often, and usually voluntarily.

As a Russian, I nearly pushed the Germans off the board. I likely would have if not for concession before it could happen. Night played a big part in that. As the Russian, the goal should be to get into as much advantageous CC as possible at night. Hell, even a single cloaked script can do huge damage if done right. To be completely fair, the game was a bit mismatched, but, I'm also convinced most simply aren't playing night to their favor.

 

[janusz.maxe]

B applies to the Germans as well, particularly if the stack is one unit strong.
I'm not sure where C came from. Unless you were horrible at minimizing losses, you should have plenty. If you're cloaked and firing enough to have it be brought up as a valid argument, you're almost certainly doing it wrong.
As D mentions, you might be in trouble. Those types of stacks will be minimal, however, and are generally avoidable.
As far as E, if you're maneuvering right, it will quite possibly be the Germans breaking more often, and usually voluntarily.

As a Russian, I nearly pushed the Germans off the board. I likely would have if not for concession before it could happen. Night played a big part in that. As the Russian, the goal should be to get into as much advantageous CC as possible at night. Hell, even a single cloaked script can do huge damage if done right. To be completely fair, the game was a bit mismatched, but, I'm also convinced most simply aren't playing night to their favor.

This is so funny, and really shows how complicated ASL (and real life tactics too) can be. X plays tactic A, working quite well against side Y using tactic B. But then he changes to C, forcing X to change to D, and later refined to E. Y then changes up once again to F, and this keeps on until both sides agree this is their optimum way to play. If someone then jumps in, sees tactic J played and suggests playing tatic K, without knowledge of what has gone before, the debate just runs in circles. Because, most probably, tatic K is pretty close to F, used before and then countered by G. Both players know it, and prepare for it. ASL, and CG play, is usually much more complicated than this.

This is not an attack on Morbii in any way, he answers my arguments and makes this debate interesting, but I realise it must go on a while to get to the the bottom of this. Maybe one of us can find a tactic the other never thought of, and thus find the reason for our differing opinions on this CG. Or maybe we will find that something much more basic, like depletion rolls, different reinforcement buys, horrendous Stuka sighting tasks check or some such drastically influenced our understanding of this CG. For few have so far played several CGIVs and can start discussing differences outside of important DRs and individual opponents. Just remember that Rommel when commanding the defences in Normandy greatly overemphasized the importance and power of Allied airsuperiority, after his traumatic experience in the desert. Even taking different terrain and weather into effect, one of the greatest generals of WWII couldn't chake the effects of his memories from Africa.

Now to the argument:
B: it's easier to stack as the Germans because their SWs are so strong, easier to move and leadership is better. Two squads with MMG+LMG fire a 16-1 with a good leader. The Soviets need either 3 squads or 2+2MMGs to get the same FP (at any range greater than 2), and the later is extremely hard to move and have B11. Adding a -1 leader to every such stack is impossible for the Soviets, while quite easy for the Germans.
C: The Soviets have to stack to get any dummy cloaking counters at all. Attacking stacked is not a very good idea when the SAN is 2 higher than normal and you have to cross roads to get to the enemy. The German flares WILL light up the attack sector, and those road will be subject to crossfire from other front sectors and overwatch MGs/mortars.
D: No, once an attack runs into heavy opposition it's very hard to bypass it. The reason is that even later movement must be made at snails pace, or cloaking wil be lost. So if an attack attempts to cross a road, find that said enemy killstack (26 FP out to 3 hexes) defends on the opposite side (at the cost of a brokie or two), the attack will loose at least two turns to attack another sector out of killstack LOS. But behold, the killstack and all it's supporting units in that sector now have freedom of movement, and a lot of units must be left to stop counterattacking. Or they will move parallell to your attack and act as a fire brigade to counter it now that it has changed direction.
E: If an attack units runs into too much German FP they break and can't rout away but die in the streets. This will happen too.
If maneuvering right, the German counterattacks will use the lack of routing to full advantage. Your broken Soviets will rout on top of your next line of defence and get shot to pieces as a afterthought while the Germans are assaulting the next Soviet line. Cloaking, and lack of leaders, just doesn't go well with defending at night. You can't get starshells up without loosing cloak, and the Soviets are really short on leaders.

Janusz

 

[Morbii]

This is so funny, and really shows how complicated ASL (and real life tactics too) can be. X plays tactic A, working quite well against side Y using tactic B. But then he changes to C, forcing X to change to D, and later refined to E. Y then changes up once again to F, and this keeps on until both sides agree this is their optimum way to play. If someone then jumps in, sees tactic J played and suggests playing tatic K, without knowledge of what has gone before, the debate just runs in circles. Because, most probably, tatic K is pretty close to F, used before and then countered by G. Both players know it, and prepare for it. ASL, and CG play, is usually much more complicated than this.

This is not an attack on Morbii in any way, he answers my arguments and makes this debate interesting, but I realise it must go on a while to get to the the bottom of this. Maybe one of us can find a tactic the other never thought of, and thus find the reason for our differing opinions on this CG. Or maybe we will find that something much more basic, like depletion rolls, different reinforcement buys, horrendous Stuka sighting tasks check or some such drastically influenced our understanding of this CG. For few have so far played several CGIVs and can start discussing differences outside of important DRs and individual opponents. Just remember that Rommel when commanding the defences in Normandy greatly overemphasized the importance and power of Allied airsuperiority, after his traumatic experience in the desert. Even taking different terrain and weather into effect, one of the greatest generals of WWII couldn't chake the effects of his memories from Africa.

Now to the argument:
B: it's easier to stack as the Germans because their SWs are so strong, easier to move and leadership is better. Two squads with MMG+LMG fire a 16-1 with a good leader. The Soviets need either 3 squads or 2+2MMGs to get the same FP (at any range greater than 2), and the later is extremely hard to move and have B11. Adding a -1 leader to every such stack is impossible for the Soviets, while quite easy for the Germans.
C: The Soviets have to stack to get any dummy cloaking counters at all. Attacking stacked is not a very good idea when the SAN is 2 higher than normal and you have to cross roads to get to the enemy. The German flares WILL light up the attack sector, and those road will be subject to crossfire from other front sectors and overwatch MGs/mortars.
D: No, once an attack runs into heavy opposition it's very hard to bypass it. The reason is that even later movement must be made at snails pace, or cloaking wil be lost. So if an attack attempts to cross a road, find that said enemy killstack (26 FP out to 3 hexes) defends on the opposite side (at the cost of a brokie or two), the attack will loose at least two turns to attack another sector out of killstack LOS. But behold, the killstack and all it's supporting units in that sector now have freedom of movement, and a lot of units must be left to stop counterattacking. Or they will move parallell to your attack and act as a fire brigade to counter it now that it has changed direction.
E: If an attack units runs into too much German FP they break and can't rout away but die in the streets. This will happen too.
If maneuvering right, the German counterattacks will use the lack of routing to full advantage. Your broken Soviets will rout on top of your next line of defence and get shot to pieces as a afterthought while the Germans are assaulting the next Soviet line. Cloaking, and lack of leaders, just doesn't go well with defending at night. You can't get starshells up without loosing cloak, and the Soviets are really short on leaders.

Janusz

No offense taken - you are correct, people must adapt during play, this is true.

Part of my argument hinged on the fact that I believe if you're firing as the Russian instead of trying to get into CC (and I'm not referring to having a killstack or two in the background - HW shouldn't be cloaked), IMO you're doing it wrong - and your own argument E just confirms this. In CGIV, by the second scenario, the German will usually have such a large swath of land that having multiple killstacks everywhere will be very difficult for them to do whilst maintaining everything they want to maintain. The art is in isolating them out and getting the easy pickins. For example, sans HIP, you already KNOW if there's more than a single squad in a stack. If the defender is setup in all stacks, well, you have more room to maneuver. Also, remember that the Russian may very well have a "buttload" of Commissars at this point. Those guys are also instrumental - no one but the Russians can get the same turnaround with Rallies if the Commissars are placed correctly (though, I never really relied on this- it is a viable option).

As far as lack of cloaking counters, it's my opinion that the Russian probably SHOULD be stacking in them. At least 2 MMC per cloak with the exception of perhaps conscripts which are good to use as "bumping devices" to get the Germans unconcealed.

Also, remember that the terrain is so difficult to move in that, just like with uncloaked Russians, the Germans aren't going far.

Finally, as AARs have shown, the further the game progresses, the more the Germans thin out. I believe the first night attack is instrumental, but it wouldn't surprise me if some of the later night attacks are even more so, particularly when the Germans are starting to run out of Infantry and the Russians still have a decent foothold on the board.

At the end of the day, you're right, different tactics will need to be used in order to perform what you need to perform vs different opponents. However, I believe that most are pretty inexperienced with night (myself included) and there's so much more to work with that doesn't require worrying about the same things you worry about during the day.

 

[Maedhros]

I find it wierd that these weaknesses in the CG were not found in the playtesting. After all Tom spent ages preparing this module. It must have seen a lot of playtesting - otherwise where did all the time go. I'm sorry to hear that the fortifications are so costly. I was hoping they might be a saving grace for the Russians.

Is there nothing the Russian can do to turn the CG in his favor?

Honestly, the CG is so big and there are so many variables a thorough playtesting is nigh impossible.

 

[Eagle02]

At the end of the day, you're right, different tactics will need to be used in order to perform what you need to perform vs different opponents. However, I believe that most are pretty inexperienced with night (myself included) and there's so much more to work with that doesn't require worrying about the same things you worry about during the day.

I think this is particularly on point. My experience is the Soviet night attacks require nuance and skills that not a lot of ASL players get to use very much. The only way you get better is by doing more night assaults. I found I was experimenting as I was learning. My first question was do I want to stage a night assault where I use shock or stealth to break my way in? If I chose shock it was typically a Katyusha or creeping barrage which has the downside of allowing the Germans to light up the board right away. Stealth can be dicey, one blown CC or SAN attack and the cat is out of the bag. Stealth worked well when the Germans were spread thin, shock worked well when they were bunched up for protection.

The other tricky part of Soviet night assaults is timing. You have to have cloaked squads assigned as the exploitation force to really take back territory otherwise you are slogging along like the Germans at night. If this is well timed the scenario should be over b/f the Germans can even react and push reserves to the hole created by the Soviets.

I believe the best defense is a good offense. More folks should night assault as the Soviets in this CG. I wish I had continued making night assaults instead of resting my forces. My .02 anyway.

 

[Honza]

The other tricky part of Soviet night assaults is timing. You have to have cloaked squads assigned as the exploitation force to really take back territory otherwise you are slogging along like the Germans at night. If this is well timed the scenario should be over b/f the Germans can even react and push reserves to the hole created by the Soviets.

That is a genius strategy. To delay the night attack a few turns and then resolve it at the end of the scenario before the German can react.

Rep to you.

A great post overall.

 

[Honza]

Honestly, the CG is so big and there are so many variables a thorough playtesting is nigh impossible.

I don't know which team or teams playtested VotG but I bet it was playtested to death. So much so that the Russian players had mastered the challenge and used their in depth knowledge to prove a match for the Germans.

I bet that if any one of us played the Russian side 3 times in a row, we would have a much better understanding of how to play them and what to do to win.

I think the Russian side in VotG CGIV is proving too difficult for most of us....so far. We will learn, hopefully.

 

[Bob Miller]

Good comments. Utilizing successful night tactics is key for the Russians. Many players need much more experience in this area, myself included. That comment on timing the attack is right on. Easier said than done.

I'm glad Scott and I stuck a fork in this. The mid-game wasn't as fun as the opening attack dates. Increased troops levels and massivley increased SW presence for the Germans made this a "find the bug, swat the bug, repeat, repeat, repeat experience" And I was doing the swatting.

Scott did a great job keeping me off balance and guessing during the 15th - 17th. Those Attack chits forcing me to set up first, twice (plus roll to see who moves first) was an interesting development. Still it took away from Scott's night attack. Night attacks even if they do nothing on the board still add to the German ELR reduction strategy.

Eventually I would like to try this CG again, but from the Russian side, I have a few ideas that just may work. But not for a while. Ponryi and Budapest coming out.

 

[Gunner Scott]

Hi ya-

Bob and I decided to try VotG CGIV again with Bob as the nasty invading nazis and me of course as the Heroic Russian defenders of Stalingrad. First off, this is a super fun CG that will test your CG skillz to no end. So with that said, I decided on the Trainstation Gambit Declined defense IE I decided not to invest the Train Station with a large amount of NKVD troops nor fortify it. I wanted to defend more along the K and L hexrows with a light upfront defense.

My southern flank was defended by my T-34's in buildings with a MTR at K40 2nd level and a 76L ART piece on L38 at the 2nd level reinforced by an INF gun on the Ground level of K36. The primary mission for these guys was to hit any kill stacks with smoke and catch and stray German squad running about. In the middle I had mostly my NKVD squads ready to blast back any Germans across J hexrow street. In the North, I have my other two 76L ART pieces, one in Pavlovs house the other near pavlovs house. The 82mm MTR in building S7 to help support the ART pieces IE put out smoke and so on.

The first turn see's the Germans put down three Areal Bombardments, thankfully I did not set up in force in the Train Station because three hexes got rubbled and I lost three conscript squads. I also lost my mines that were hidden in the now rubbled hexes of the train Station. All in all, it could have been alot worse but it was not plus now I had some nice LOS past the Train Station. As can be seen on the pics, Bob's Germans are attacking in force in the south.

On turn two, Bob takes the Train Station and I lose a couple of squads to FT's and boxcars. One of my T-34's MA's Melfs, so that kind of seriously sucks. Bobs Stuka vaporizes my 9-1 and two and half squads with a 200mm Bomb (tried to skulk back and figured the Stuka would need at least a 5 to spot me, Bob rolled a 4) Bob's German continue to push forward but the funny thing is, his 80 mm OBA pulled two red cards trying to convert an SR to an FFE and thus lost two mission with that sort of shanagins.

On turn three, Bob's OBA finally goes off on my ART Piece and MTR. He scores a CH on the ART Piece and it dies, the Crew of the MTR, already broken from a sniper attack break again and die from an OBA NMC. So with very good luck, the Germans are cracking my Tran Station Area gambit, but all Bob has killed in infantry are 8 conscripts, one NKVD (in CC) and a couple of 1st line guys. So even though my Guns are taking a beating, my infantry are still around to fight.

edit: forgot to mention my 10-0 commissar getting vaporized by a 200mm bomb, those rotating Stukas are nasty.

Here are my first day Purchases:
NKVD Lightly Depleted
NKVD Full Strength
INF Gunx3
76L ART Depleted
Fortsx4
Increased Boobytraps to level B
Baught 90 FPP's in mines
And some other stuff.

Scott

 

[Gunner Scott]

Hi all-

Figured I would give you guys an update on how are VotG CGIV is progressing. We did do the Night scenario for september 14 night and boy was that a wild 6 turns of death and destruction. The NVR went from NVR 2 to NVR 0 at one point and if the locations were not illuminated, then either the Russians or Germans can actually enter enemy occupied hexes (EXC Fortified Locations). My Night attack went straight into the teeth of a strong German Defense resaulting in by games end 55 Russian Infantry CVP's plus 14 CVP's in two dead KV's and the German Losses were around 40CVP's. So ya, a very brutal night scenario indeed. The Set-DC's I did set up, only one went off and took out I think two squads, the other one, well, did nothing because my Russians did not read the instructions that you have to be >= to two hexes away to set them off. The Company commander was executed for that gaff. But all in all, the Night rules, as wonky as they are can be groked though they can also be a bit of a pain and time consuming. Oh and my Rocket OBA was absolutely worthless, a real waste of points.

Russian Buys for 14 Night:
Two Guards Rifle companies one Lightly depleted the other Moderately Depleted
Storm Plt Full strength
HW Plt Full Strength
Rockets Scarce Ammo

Ya, even with the -2 historical DRM, my good stuff still rolled high and depleted. A crying shame indeed.

15 Day
Currently Bob and I are on turn 5 of our 15 day turn with Bob's attack going all in the south and strongly defending everywhere else. Coming off the Night attack left me with 10 points to spend, so I had a couple of tough decisions to make. I decided to go with two yellow dot rifle companies in reserve that must then set up on >= 46 in the south and two Fortification purchases. Part of me kind of regrets that move just because the Germans at this point are putting the hurt on those units, on the other hand, I too have put some hurt on the Germans but I would have prefered to have just given up the south and withdraw out of that situation, which was and still is my original plan. If you look at the Pics, you will see I gave up a good chunk of real estate so at to shorten my lines for a better defense of the middle and northern portions of Downtown Stalingrad.

So with that said, I put my Set DC's near the Dept Store in the cellar, the HIP stuff really worried Bob a bit so he was cautious in his initial push south, plus the Smoke he had put forward ended up and believe it or not hurting his advance more then helping it. I did set up some nice firelane paths from my 50cal and HMG groups, so this kind of forced the Germans to not race across certain streets as well instead of using those stug's to get behind me, he had to use them to put in Sd's to cover his troops trying to get across the street. Bob's OBA did manage to force my 50cal Group off the 2nd level of the BB27 building, but my 82mm MTR guys did hang in there under murderous OBA fire.

My two 82mm MTRs in the Specialist house are working miracles as they pound the Germans across Khersonakoya BLVD. Best of all, I even generated an 8-1 leader when my crew went into CC with a Stug in hex BB29. All in all, the CG still feels slightly pro german, but as the Russians, you have to know when to stand and when to pull back. As much as the Night rules can be a pain, the Russians will need to use those rules to exact casulties from the Germans, day scenario casualties are ok, but night if done right, can be even more brutal. Below are pics of my set up, though I did change a few minor things after I took the pics and there are pics of the current battle.

EDIT: I did move the INF Gun to BB27 with my 50cal group.

Scott

 

[THH149]

Hi all-

games end 55 Russian Infantry CVP's plus 14 CVP's in two dead KV's and the German Losses were around 40CVP's. Scott

Great job as the Russian, though perhaps overdid it a little.

I'm keen to see if you start feeling the Russian joy in another few dates - and whether you out purchase the Germans in infantry from here on.

g

 

[Gunner Scott]

Howdy-

Well, this is our 3rd stab at CGIV but unlike the other playings, This time the Russians did not try to defend the train Station or the railyard and that I think makes a huge difference in incurring and inflicting losses. Bob's attack in the south at CG start was pretty harsh on the Russians but as the Russians I did give the Germans a bloody nose.

This is one module that has some nice character too it and does not feel generic at all. Lots of fun indeed.

Scott

Great job as the Russian, though perhaps overdid it a little.

I'm keen to see if you start feeling the Russian joy in another few dates - and whether you out purchase the Germans in infantry from here on.

g

 

[Gunner Scott]

Hi all-

Here is an update of our ongoing VotG CG IV game. We did play both the 15 Day scenario and played the 15 Night scenario on saturday. Both games were bloody to say the least with both of us whining up a storm on our respective days. Strangely, Bob's Day attack was I thought very good but He felt he should have been able to cause more casualties, this is perhaps a very important concept in CG's like VoTg and RB, territory gain is secondary, its causing as many casualties on your opponents forces that is much more important. On my Night attack, I whined about Bob's extraordinary ability to place Starshells and IR just where he needed them, then proceeded to paste my upper level guys with impunity, so much so, I desperately tried to smoke in his kill stacks, with some measure of success but only after losing a my HMG kill group and a 10-3 Russian leader rolling boxcars on a rally attempt and dying, oh you will never know how frustrated and angry I was after that result. So ya we are having alot of fun more or less playing VotG. Just hate when real bad things happen to me lol.

On the 15 day scenario, which has been noted up till turn 5, Bob had my lads in a real bad position near the docks with several of my lads broken and no real AT capability to fend off his hard driving Armor, I knew if I did not roll a one to end the game on turn 5, Bob's units would then be able to completely destroy two 1st line RG's I had purchased. At first I thought, well, that was a strategic blunder, but thinking about it more, perhaps not, my Two guards rifle companies came out of the 15 Day pretty much unscathed and the Germans did take a beating on their drive towards the southern Volga Docks. So with one of my 447's in CC with three German Squads on turn 5 and everywhere I had tried to withdraw to safer haven, I then announced the CC phase where currently I had as mentioned earlier my lone 447 against three Germans squads and a leader. As the Attacker now, I flipped the regular melee to H to H melee and at 1 to 4 odds I needed I think a 5 or less to kill all of bob's dudes, well I rolled a 4 and killed all his dudes and of course my 447 got whacked too, but it was a sweet little victory more for me because I did take out alot of Germans. Then for the game end roll I needed a One and I rolled.........................A ONE!!!! Paulas calls it a day and the Russians manage to save at least 8 or 9 squads, 9-1 and 9-0 commissar from destruction. a fair day for the Russians indeed.
Total losses:
Russian: 45 CVP
German: 26 CVP infantry and 16 in Armor (three Stugs bought it)

Will get to the Night scenario in the next post and will try to post the perimeter stuff too.

Edit: attached is the russian perimeter for day 15 will get the end of the Night 15 perimeter up later.
Scott

 

[THH149]

The Russian results look pretty good - 45CVP lost to the Germans 26 plus 3 stugs - once the 10-3CVP is factored out. 41CVP is about 20 squads, compared to German 13 - nearly 1.5:1 loss ratio - pretty respectable for the 15th Day.

Post the number of Squad Equivalents lost each game - if you can - the strategic contest is a little clearer at that level.

G