The French in ASL

Houlie

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There have already been numerous scenarios featuring Vichy troops.
My post was poorly worded. I meant seeing Vichy vs. French scenarios. I know there are a relative handful, but it would be nice to see designers energized to develop additional ones. Most current Vichy vs. non-French scenarios we have can be played with the current French counter mix with little fuss.
 

JRKrejsa

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FT161 - French Civil War in Gabon also portrays Vichy vs Free French. However, due to the meager amount of scenarios pitting Vichy vs Free French (and above all, the very few fratricidal Vichy/Free French actions during WW2), I am still doubting whether Vichy French forces really worth specific counters.
And, as I recall, a fun scenario too.
 

Pitman

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My post was poorly worded. I meant seeing Vichy vs. French scenarios. I know there are a relative handful, but it would be nice to see designers energized to develop additional ones. Most current Vichy vs. non-French scenarios we have can be played with the current French counter mix with little fuss.
I wanted the Free French to be in French colors, not the Vichy French. There were far more of the former than the latter, too.
 

KhandidGamera

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I wanted the Free French to be in French colors, not the Vichy French. There were far more of the former than the latter, too.
Best point of all, practical goes around the Brit US colors problem, and logical - French blue is always the good guys, shows the Vichy switched sides not the otherwise. Like the partisan logic as well. I imagine our French colleagues would better appreciate your color scheme to.
 

Mister T

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I looked into the letter and these are good suggestions for the French. Initially I was a bit surprised to see the Free French in blue and Vichy in two-tone, as Vichy barely used German weapons. Nevertheless I can see the merit of using the same colour for French 39-40 and Free French, using political rationale. Because the Free French were indeed…French. They were the sole legitimate flag-bearer of the French nation as Vichy lost it. De Gaulle considered that France was no longer embodied by Petain and the sole legitimate representative of France and all legal acts that were adopted during the period were null and void for that reason. When was this implicit transfer in legitimacy done? De Gaulle would consider it took place after Montoire. Communists would rather see it after the invasion of the USSR. The rest of the population would see it as obvious either after the return of Laval as PM or after the invasion of the so-called “zone libre” in November 1942. So from that political perspective using blue with the Croix de Lorraine made a lot of sense. When MMP decided not to follow Pitman’s suggestions (minor stuff it has to be said), it also makes sense. The Milice could be depicted with axis minor counters and I’m not sure one can find a critical mass of worthwhile actions from a military perspective (the action against the Vercors uprising comes to mind). The French resistance can safely use the standard partisan counters.
Also a 447 FFI squad was not that necessary in my opinion as scenarios can tune the mix of squads and ELR level to the unit's background.
 

Michael Dorosh

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So I'm still trying to figure out what the box would have - other than Dinant - that I wouldn't already have if I kept current with the system from the outset.

The scenarios appear to be reworkings of the original ASL Module 10 scenarios, with additional reissues of Journal, General and Annual scenarios. I own all the originals.

The maps are 42 and 43, which I own in both mounted and unmounted form.

The countersheets - putting aside the extra German stuff for the Dinant CG, this is a reissue of the French counters from the original, with the addition of two-toned counters for Vichy French? Do the Vichy French counters differ at all from the regular French counters, other than colour?

Updated national capabilities chart, Chapter A errata pages, and reissue of the Chapter H vehicle and ordnance notes.

Did the Free French get issued, and how? Are these now British and/or US counters in French blue? I understand the US/Brit vehicles were not included in blue.

It's a beautiful presentation all round from the box to the CG and tempting, but I'm leery of replacing my original French counters which have seen far less use than my other nationalities and are pretty much still mint condition.
 

boylermaker

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Michael, the Vichy french counters seem identical to the regular French.

The Free French are in French blue, with a little white cross on the counter. Otherwise they are identical to British counters (except that the British SW have a (b) on them). There are some vehicles that are duplicated in French, British, and American colors. I'm not entirely sure what these are (presumably something to do with the Free French), or whether they are new to this addition.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Michael, the Vichy french counters seem identical to the regular French.

The Free French are in French blue, with a little white cross on the counter. Otherwise they are identical to British counters (except that the British SW have a (b) on them). There are some vehicles that are duplicated in French, British, and American colors. I'm not entirely sure what these are (presumably something to do with the Free French), or whether they are new to this addition.
Excellent, thanks for this. So the later war Free French are still portrayed by US (olive green) counters?
 

CTKnudsen

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So I'm still trying to figure out what the box would have - other than Dinant - that I wouldn't already have if I kept current with the system from the outset.
The counters you do get are quite nice. There are a few, (though very few) minor revisions in the Ch H - a slightly changed RF here and there, some reworking of the MAVNs to reflect the new counter scheme, basically. The Ch A revisions basically have to do with the new colour schemes, no other changes that I can see.

Some scenarios have been reworked slightly from the original, but no biggie.

So really, as nice as it is, you could probably get by without it.

EXCEPT....

Dinant. Dinant is a CG unlike any we have seen before, just based on the river crossing rules alone. Add in some really interesting campaign VCs, and the fact that there is no movement or re-setup between scenarios, and this has the potential to be a truly epic HASL.

Plus, you get 10 or 11 Dinant scenarios, too!

Look at it as buying Dinant, plus you get a bunch of extra stuff. Whether Dinant plus is worth the money is up to you.
 

Michael Dorosh

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The counters you do get are quite nice. There are a few, (though very few) minor revisions in the Ch H - a slightly changed RF here and there, some reworking of the MAVNs to reflect the new counter scheme, basically. The Ch A revisions basically have to do with the new colour schemes, no other changes that I can see.

Some scenarios have been reworked slightly from the original, but no biggie.

So really, as nice as it is, you could probably get by without it.

EXCEPT....

Dinant. Dinant is a CG unlike any we have seen before, just based on the river crossing rules alone. Add in some really interesting campaign VCs, and the fact that there is no movement or re-setup between scenarios, and this has the potential to be a truly epic HASL.

Plus, you get 10 or 11 Dinant scenarios, too!

Look at it as buying Dinant, plus you get a bunch of extra stuff. Whether Dinant plus is worth the money is up to you.
Great analysis, thank you.
 

Eagle4ty

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From what I was able to discern by comparing the Chapter N just for the basic French (not including the Dinant additions, Free French & Vichy French counters), I arrived at the following changes for the original counters:
2 more 228 cr 10/12 (Original/2nd Ed)
6 more 248 HS 14/20
2 more 237 HS 18/20
4 more 227 HS 16/20
1 more LMG
18 more 1/2" Tgt Acq. (3 different colours) - boy, it almost pained me to spell it that way ;)

As for the vehicles there didn't seem to be a difference from the original issue but of course the CG counter sheets add several of various types. Along with the French are of course boat loads of new German counters (both infantry & vehicles) to include 468AE (40 for Pete's sake) and other counters such as ferry's, 8 & 16 tn Pontoon bridges, etc.

All said it's going to be very difficult for me to forego this purchase though initially I had similar thoughts.
 

Tuomo

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Something that interested me about Mark's post was the notion of a double-wide wooded hill board. I sketched something that I mostly like, but I get the feeling it veered a little away from my (and probably Mark's) original intent. Would be interested to see a sketch (by anyone).
 

KhandidGamera

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Just watched Ritterkrieg box opening, guess I misunderstood, but Pitman's color scheme was more or less followed and then some - FF have a Cross of Lorraine also. British squad structure followed though. Haven't got mine yet, but will. Thanks again ASL for destroying any attempt at trying to save money :p - between this and OtO2.
 
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