SP109 Olboeter's Escape

[CKS04]

While looking through this scenario a general question raised up.

This scenario is a 1944 Normandy set fight where units from the 1th Polish Armoured Division defend against German SS. The Polish OoB gives them British SW and AFV. They also have OBA.

Now the question is what counters are the Polish? A25.92 tells me that after the conquest of their country, Allied Minor forces are OFTEN represented by British. So what does mean often here? Is it an hint that Scenario designers should use British MMC/SMC counter. MUST i use automatically British MMC/SMC counter? Can somebody explain this to me and probably give me a rule advice?

Assuming they are represented by British MMC/SMC counter, do they act like British in all aspects (no cowering , OBA chits, Black TH Numbers, etc)?

Thanks for any help.

 

[Brian W]

Assuming they are represented by British MMC/SMC counter, do they act like British in all aspects (no cowering , OBA chits, Black TH Numbers, etc)?

They are represented with British/commenwealth counters and they do act like British/commenwealth units in all respects.

 

[Vinnie]

While this is true watch out for SSR's giving the foreign troops special abilities.

 

[CKS04]

They are represented with British/commenwealth counters and they do act like British/commenwealth units in all respects.

Sorry if I'am playing "the stupid", but why? On which rule is this based. Only A25.92?

Thanks.

CK

 

[Brian W]

Only A25.92?

Yes, if that is the rule you described earlier. NASLRBH

 

[CKS04]

If I pick up counters as desribed in the OoB for a scenario, I first look at the nationality of my side. In SP109 this are Polish. Then I look in the SSR section whether there is some change or some other important note. It is not with SP109.

Now please explain me, why I should come to the idea that the printed (on the scenario card) 458 is a British MMC rather then an Allied Minor one?

Will anybody seriously tell me that in a game of such high (rule-)detail as ASL the only word "often" - as used in A 25.92 - is enough to make this very important change? Polish units use Red TH, Cower and have lowered broken moral. This drawbacks are all based on the word "often" I cannot believe this!

If this change should be mandatory then the rule would say something like "Polish units in scenarios after 1939 are represented by British MMC and are treated as British for all purposes"

Is there any official clarification, erata or else?

Thanks

CK

 

[Robin Reeve]

A 25.4 : British troops also encompass all "Commonwealth", Free French, and liberated forces. Guardsmen, Gurkha, ANZAC (Australian and New Zealand), and Free French/Polish forces should generally be regarded as elite troops, as should Canadian units - all of which were composed of volunteers rather than draftees.

(emphasis mine) In the present case, your Polish units are calle "British" by the system - at least, this is how I read A 25.4...

 

[semenza]

There are also some other differances on the counters. Assuming the scenario has depictions- British 458s have smoke exp of 2, Elite is encased in a square. If you are still unsure rules wise these can be additional clues as to which you should be using.


Seth

 

[CKS04]

(emphasis mine) In the present case, your Polish units are calle "British" by the system - at least, this is how I read A 25.4...

Robin,

ok. This is at least a more direct hint where I can follow any interpretion like you did. That answers my question.

Would you expand A25.4 as far as giving the Polish tanks in Olboeters's Escape also a raised Special Ammunition Depletion number due to being elite?

CK

 

[Vinnie]

This is something that should be dealt with in the SSR. The term generally considered elite is rather vague. Contrast this with the SS definition as "eite class troops". Failing definition in the scnario card I would say the armour does notget the elite benefits despite the accompanying nfantry eing elite.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Would you expand A25.4 as far as giving the Polish tanks in Olboeters's Escape also a raised Special Ammunition Depletion number due to being elite?

No, as per C8.2 only if the historical formation is either SS or Guards are they automatically Elite (for Ammo. Depletion Number purposes).

C8.2:
"8.2 ELITE: Increase the Depletion Number of an armed-vehicle/weapon by one for Elite forces. An armed-vehicle/weapon in a printed scenario is Elite for this purpose if so specified by an SSR or if the historical formation to which it belongs is either SS or Russian Guards. For DYO scenarios a force is considered Elite only if the Majority Squad Type of its side's total OB is Elite."

 

[CKS04]

No, as per C8.2 only if the historical formation is either SS or Guards are they automatically Elite (for Ammo. Depletion Number purposes).

Ok. Sounds reasonable. Then I summarize, that the Polish forces in Olboeter's Escape are treated as British for all purposes (including the use of British counter). They are not treated as elite for Special Ammunition Depletion purposes.

Thanks.

CK

 

[M.Koch]

Ok. Sounds reasonable. Then I summarize, that the Polish forces in Olboeter's Escape are treated as British for all purposes (including the use of British counter). They are not treated as elite for Special Ammunition Depletion purposes.

As i told you, Christian...:hush:

But for me it´s very astonishing that Polish, represented by British counters don´t cower, but Free French, also represented by British counters, do.:hmmm:

Were the Polish so much cooler than the French...?

just my 2 cent

MK

 

[Ed B]

The Poles were much cooler than the French. Analyses of the invasions of Poland and France have revealed that the Polish soldier generally fought more bravely than the French soldier. The Poles had to get to England from the other side of Germany. The French only had to get across the Channel. The Poles prepared for years with the British just to get a chance at revenge upon the Germans be it in Africa, Italy or France. They were highly motivated, no couch taters there. Of course that's not to say the Free French forces were slackers, they also had a high percentage of highly motivated personell and proved it many times.

 

[Robin Reeve]

The Poles were much cooler than the French.

Especially the North and South Poles, some say.:clown:

 

[Carl]

Another clue is that the units described in the OB are British in nature. Allied Minors don't have Piats, Sherman VC(a), Sherman V(a), Carriers, or OQF 6 pounders. Also, the 1st Polish Armoured Division was in the British OOB. For the most part, they were trained, outfitted, and organized like a British division.

Carl