'Ol Fezziwig
Repressed Dissident
One smart thing Francoma does is drop guys who are struggling down in theorder. I think it important in Ellsbury's case so the kid doesn't get discouraged.He wasn't batting leadoff was he?
Sox and Yanks
- Thread starter BruceC
- Start date
Re: Die Yankees Die!
Lemon didn't come over till 82.
79 was his 1st year but only in 12 gms. In 1980 he was in 51 gms with 175 AB.
Lemon didn't come over till 82.
Re: Die Yankees Die!
They won the series with Lemon, Gibson and Herndon in the outfield.
'Ol Fezziwig
Repressed Dissident
Re: Die Yankees Die!
I have a friend who lives on Cape Cod; he makes a hajj to Yankee Stadium every year. Big Red Sox fan, he wears either his "Yankees Suck!" or "Jeter Swallows!" shirts....shockingly, he's thus far lived to tell the tales...
Re: Die Yankees Die!
He should be beaten with a sock filled with concrete! :freak:
Bret Hildebran
Elder Member
Singling Baseball Response
Decided to remove my baseball response out of the Singling thread...
And compared to his Superstar contemporaries (e.g. Clemens) he looks pretty good relatively speaking. :laugh:
Decided to remove my baseball response out of the Singling thread...
Don Zimmer had it coming to him!Psycho said:But Pedro is an @sshole.
And compared to his Superstar contemporaries (e.g. Clemens) he looks pretty good relatively speaking. :laugh:
As long as the Steelers are in the same division with the Browns the playoffs are always in sight. That's two automatic wins right there. The Bengals have no defense and the Ravens have no QB.A short season ahead for Steelers fans, though. (No playoffs:upset
The only thing that *might* keep them out of the playoffs is that they have to play a 1st place schedule this year and will have to play San Diego, New England and Indy among other top finishers from last year.
Bret Hildebran
Elder Member
Pedro vs. Christy et. al.
But Pedro has been better in the innings he threw than Christy, and he wins more, even if he doesn't finish what he started. And Pedro is light years better than Jack Morris, even if Pedro never threw 10 shutout in the World Series - despite that gem, Pedro still out pitched Jack in the post-season. Pedro will go into the Hall on the first ballot while Jack is still looking to buy a ticket with the rest of us.
And before you wax poetic about how Pete always bet on the Reds, do remember he didn't bet everyday (for example he never bet on Mario Soto's starts) and if you're betting for them to win 3 of every 4 days, what exactly is that non-bet on the 4th day? Yes, it's essentially like you're betting them to lose. You think Pete's bookies didn't notice that? Did that effect his managerial decisions? Who he sat? How he used his pen? I'd have a lot more respect for Rose (and his apologists) had he placed a standing fixed amount bet on the Reds to win for all 162 games, but since he didn't - well he was betting against the Reds even if he didn't "win" money from those games should they lose. And as a Reds fan following them on a day-to-day basis during Pete's tenure as manager, I can tell you he had several questionable "odd" playing time decisions during that time. No idea if you went back and studied exactly when Pete bet vs. his decisions if you'd see a pattern, but at the time we openly questioned his odd player usage - most notably when he'd play/sit Nick Esasky.
Anyway, give me a Juicer over a guy betting on his team's games any day...At least I know the juicer is trying to be his best, vs. the gambler I'll never be certain if he was in someone's pocket or altering his team's play on the day's he didn't bet to give him a better shot at winning when he did...
Pedro's relief shutdown was in a deciding game as well - granted it was game 5 of the Division series, but it was win or go home as well. And he shutdown a great offensive team (the '99 Tribe scored 1000 runs which hadn't been done in quite a long time). I'll admit I was thinking Morris's gem was game 6 with Toronto (i.e. not a must win game) rather than game 7 w/Minny - that Atlanta team had a decent offense (2nd in the NL in runs scored), but the '99 Indians had an offensive juggernaut.
Comparing Pedro to Mathewson is difficult though as pitching today is much different than then. Mathewson had to bear down on only a few guys per time the order, which is a lot easier on the arm than throwing all out each pitch since every player can go yard today. It's a different game today and the guy that throws complete games today like the Big Unit is a novelty.
But Pedro has been better in the innings he threw than Christy, and he wins more, even if he doesn't finish what he started. And Pedro is light years better than Jack Morris, even if Pedro never threw 10 shutout in the World Series - despite that gem, Pedro still out pitched Jack in the post-season. Pedro will go into the Hall on the first ballot while Jack is still looking to buy a ticket with the rest of us.
Were it up to me, I'd let 'em in. Sure what they (allegedly) did was unethical etc., but the games counted, the homers counted & it's very difficult to even begin to quantify how much it helped them. All I know for sure is what actually happened on the field & on the field, they were HOF talents overall (I can make a case against Sosa & Palmiero, but they hit the counting stats typically needed). Is there PEDs usage more offensive than Cobb being a racist? Or pick your other favorite current HOFer with a checkered ethical past. You can pick on Fergie or Cepeda or Marichal or...Well you get the idea.
Verge of? By that standard there have been very few great pitchers in baseball history. If you want to reserve "great" for maybe 10 pitchers ever, maybe & I could likely squeeze his Boston resume' into the top 10 if I work at it.
Well you know we differ there. The PEDs guys were all juicing to improve their game - while they may have tarnished the relative rankings of players and cast a shadow of doubt across the game, there was no doubt they were trying to be 110%. Rose's transgressions threatened the viability of the game as a sport and put it on the brink of Professional Wrestling style entertainment. What Rose did is reprehensible to undermine the integrity of an entire sport as if the fans question if the game is on the up and up, it's no longer a sport.
And before you wax poetic about how Pete always bet on the Reds, do remember he didn't bet everyday (for example he never bet on Mario Soto's starts) and if you're betting for them to win 3 of every 4 days, what exactly is that non-bet on the 4th day? Yes, it's essentially like you're betting them to lose. You think Pete's bookies didn't notice that? Did that effect his managerial decisions? Who he sat? How he used his pen? I'd have a lot more respect for Rose (and his apologists) had he placed a standing fixed amount bet on the Reds to win for all 162 games, but since he didn't - well he was betting against the Reds even if he didn't "win" money from those games should they lose. And as a Reds fan following them on a day-to-day basis during Pete's tenure as manager, I can tell you he had several questionable "odd" playing time decisions during that time. No idea if you went back and studied exactly when Pete bet vs. his decisions if you'd see a pattern, but at the time we openly questioned his odd player usage - most notably when he'd play/sit Nick Esasky.
Anyway, give me a Juicer over a guy betting on his team's games any day...At least I know the juicer is trying to be his best, vs. the gambler I'll never be certain if he was in someone's pocket or altering his team's play on the day's he didn't bet to give him a better shot at winning when he did...
Bret Hildebran
Elder Member
Hey this is the baseball thread - take the football talk to Mila 18!
Anymore the 1st place team's schedule only varies by 2 games from the rest of the division so it's not as big a disadvantage as it used to be. Now given the defending 1st place team's last year in the AFC, there are no real flukes, so it'll still hurt the Steelers some relative to the Browns.
Foggy
Member
Gee - Manny seems to be healthy now!
MLB is going to look into whether Scott Boras told Manny to tank those games so he could get traded. Remember that Boras doesn't get paid until Manny gets a new contract and he wasn't going to get one if he stayed in Boston. :hmmm:
Sparafucil3
Forum Guru
I was going to ask when the height of the pitchers mound got changed and if that was before or after Mathewson and wether any of the protagonists thought this might have any bearing on comparing pitchers across eras and then I remembered I care more about cricket than I do MLB (and I could give a sh*t about cricket) so I decided to make this snarky post instead. -- jim
PS: Oh yeah, I need to add a :smoke: to soften the blow.
PS: Oh yeah, I need to add a :smoke: to soften the blow.
The mound was lowered in 1969.
'69. A good year to be messing with mounds.
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'Ol Fezziwig
Repressed Dissident
Re: Pedro vs. Christy et. al.
The saddest thing is you can't erase nearly two decades of MLB, but, apparently, you can exile a player from the game not on the basis of what he did between the lines, but what he did as a manager.
Being a racist has little effect on your on-field perfomance; Cobb was an equal-opportunity offender.
I watched PhatBoy tank his last couple years in Boston; I don't easily forgive quitters, nor overly praise 'what-might-have-beens'
Seeing how the sterling personalities Clemens and Bonds have brought into the limelight, I'll respectfully disagree. Pete needed the same sort of help Steve Howe did, yet never, despite many early warnings, received the sort of understanding that a cocaine addict did. The hypocrisy of MLB is staggering.
You do remember Soto, right?:laugh: At any rate, the betting tendencies mean little unless we're to allow clairvoyance as evidence. Not betting could have just as eaily have been an admission he didn't know which Mario Soto would show up as a hedge he'd lose. Soto never, as far as I remember, went winless over the course of a season. The biggest issue is that all his managerial decisions-name a manager who isn't second-guessed and I'll show you a guy who has yet to manage a game-now become subject to that sort of scrutiny.
It's still a cheat, though, if it wasn't all those juicers would be proudly proclaiming their usage instead of lying and covering up or wagging their fingers at congress. What Pete did MAY have altered the integrity of the game-the possibility the gambling had no effect on his game never gets mentioned; after all who wanted to win every game more than Pete Rose?, what juicers do by it's very nature alters the integrity of the game. PEDs have long been considered cheating-ask Ben Johnson and oh, so many of those Soviet weightlifters and X-country skiers-even if the byzantine hierachy of MLB and the Player's Union didn't have a policy in place.
The saddest thing is you can't erase nearly two decades of MLB, but, apparently, you can exile a player from the game not on the basis of what he did between the lines, but what he did as a manager.
wrongway149
Forum Guru
AFC North plays the NFC East and AFC South- likely the two toughest divisions in the league.
9-7 will take the AFC North. Steelers will finish 8-8.
Bob Miller
Senior Member
You can put it on the board......... YES!!!!!!!!!!!
Sox win, team from Boston loses.
Sox win, team from Boston loses.
Yeah baby! :coolban:
Yanks are down 2-1 to the Angels and Tampa beating Seattle 4-2