Manila questions

[sdennis]

Its is not the number of hexsides covered by water that decides whether it is fordable or not - it is number of adjacent water hexes. I don't have the map available so I can't check these specific hexes....

OK I guess I was misremembering what I read last night. Sounds good, I think I know what the intent was but I misquoted it
My main question today was about blowing the bridges and if there is rubble or not.

 

[sdennis]

Perhaps answering my own question. SF3 says one hex wide Esteros are an EXC to being DEEP.
So if those are NOT deep, what happens if you rubble a bridge into them?

I assume the fordable taking all would mean you can still move INTO them and the rubble is at level -1 with a TEM of +3?

Does that sound right?

 

[JimWhite]

SF6.2 SEAWALL: There is a low seawall running along the shoreline of Manila Bay and bordering both shores of most of the Pasig River (EX: 2K7) that is treated as a wall (B9.) except as stated otherwise.

There are some "otherwise" things listed after that in the S&F rules.

But my question arises when looking at the actual chapter G seawall rules:

G13.62 LOW: A low seawall is treated as a normal wall (B9.) except as stated otherwise.

There are then a bunch of "otherwise" things listed after that in the chapter G rules.

Since S&F never references G13.62...do only the "otherwise" things in S&F rules apply? Or do the ones in chapter G apply as well?

The answer will make a pretty big difference regarding LOS across them.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

IIRC, it is not a G13.62 Seawall....it's just a B9. wall - in retrospect using "low seawall" could/should have said something else....

 

[JimWhite]

IIRC, it is not a G13.62 Seawall....it's just a B9. wall - in retrospect using "low seawall" could/should have said something else....

Ok...so if at Level 0...you basically have to be adjacent to the "seawall" to have LOS INTO the river?

Also...if you at level 0 and are not adjacent to the seawall...then you are likewise unable to fire into any level 0 locations on the other side of the river?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Ok...so if at Level 0...you basically have to be adjacent to the "seawall" to have LOS INTO the river?

Yes, but that would be the case even without a wall I think - isn't the River at Level -1?

Also...if you at level 0 and are not adjacent to the seawall...then you are likewise unable to fire into any level 0 locations on the other side of the river?

Sounds correct, yes.

Disclaimer - NRBH.

 

[JimWhite]

Yes, but that would be the case even without a wall I think - isn't the River at Level -1?

Yeah...but I've been looking at it from a Tarawa standpoint where there are defined Hinterland hexes and the seawall is simply a +1 hindrance when firing across it when the target and firer are not adjacent to it....even at units in the water.

Appears I have been mistaken...

 

[sdennis]

Yeah the river/canals are at -1. So pretty much need to be one the "edge" to see/shoot anyone.

 

[Larry]

If we pulled the best questions and answers from this thread, would that compilation constitute a Manila Extract?

 

[JoeArthur]

Not a rules question.

My ASL Scenario SF25 is missing a line in the historical description. Anyone else have this problem.

Apologies if this is the wrong thread................

 

[Wayne]

My ASL Scenario SF25 is missing a line in the historical description. Anyone else have this problem.

Mine too.

 

[ScottRomanowski]

See https://mmpgamers.com/support/asl/Manila_Errata_v5.pdf or ASL Journal #13 for the missing line. It's also in version 25 of my compilation in the resources here.

 

[Faded 8-1]

You coulda copied/pasted it.

Here it is:

“...followed by point blank fire from tanks, tank destroyers, and self-propelled mortars.”

 

[JoeArthur]

Many thanks everyone

 

[sdennis]

So if I convince myself that destroying a bridge in the one hex wide canals, leaves Rubble (as it is not DEEP), how do you play this combo terrain?
A fordable river that has Rubble in it...

Can tanks still enter it albeit slower than on the original bridge?
Can infantry now advance into it, NOTE: they are not allowed to advance into a fordable hex normally...

 

[Larry]

6.331 Whenever a non-pontoon bridge is destroyed, the bridge is replaced by a rubble counter at the level below it (unless in a deep or flooded water hex). If in a deep or flooded water hex, the bridge counter is simply removed (or if depicted on the mapboard, covered by a destroyed bridge counter).

A PS states that the MF cost in a shallow stream is cumulative.

Is the canal defined as shallow or deep -- or undefined?

 

[sdennis]

The hex that contains the bridge in question is a "fordable" deep canal. Fordable is defined in the Depth paragraph rule to add to the confusion. And how can ALL (fordable) be cumulative...

 

[Larry]

B20.81 Movement into a ford stream hex from any direction is treated as if the
water depth were one classification shallower (dry rather than shallow; deep
rather than flooded).

 

[sdennis]

Sorry, in Manila they are not STREAMS, they are DEEP Fordable Rivers.

 

[JoeArthur]

Reply from MMP which details their errata (in case one of you did not know.............)

https://mmpgamers.com/support/asl/Manila_Errata_v5.pdf