Is this cheating

Jazz

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Has anyone ever done this, and why?
Good question. I believe it comes up most often when having more OOB Fox Holes than one feels they can use to their benefit?

I once played someone new to VASL and he was having a hard time counting ? counters and kept insisting that I had to have all of them on board....even though I did have all of them.
 

Jazz

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Then everyone must "cheat" every game because no one remembers, enforces, or even plays 100% of the rules right in any game I've ever seen or played. 😁
What you are missing the the role that intent has. Granted, T-H-E perfect game of ASL is yet to be played. That being said, I make EVERY effort to try. I expect the same from my opponents.

I mean, is not rolling for wind change each rally phase considered cheating? Because I don't see many players do it.
Really? Every game I've ever played or watched the wind DR happens EVERY player turn like clockwork.
Rules are never 100% complied with, doesn't mean it's cheating.
Again, you are missing the role that intent plays in making that determination. Hey, I'm older, I forget shit. Still, I strive like hell to make every game as close to perfect rulz-wise as I can, and that includes calling my opponent's SAN and the like....and I expect the same from my opponents. If T-H-E perfect game of ASL ever is played it will be because all involved worked to make it so.
 
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Robin Reeve

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Has anyone ever done this, and why?
In Encounter at Cornimont, German enter with motorcyles under the sights of the French HMG.
Leaving the motorcycles offboard and moving on foot could be a better option (no Bail out + RF attack if failed PTC/MC).
But the German doesn't lose CVP for not bringing the motorcycles in play.
 

kcole4001

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Many years ago, I was buying Fire For Effect magazine. In one issue was a cardstock reminder of both side's ELR and SAN.
Whenever I'm playing a scenario, I bring it out for use.
It would be pretty easy to make one up, fold it into a tent (like the beer ads on bar tables...anyone remember those? ;) ) so it's annoyingly obvious to both players.
I think I'll do just that!
Great post, I love ideas to make things more enjoyable and/or dummy proof. 👍
 

kcole4001

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I think that SAN is different. I roll my dice and call the result. If I pick them up before the other player has a chance to digest the situation, I have to call your SAN.

The other stuff is not dependent on the pips on my dice.

That being said, I don't A.2 to my opponents but never insist that my opponent allow me to go back in time and roll that forgotten weapon repair, etc. I almost always get what I give and we have a cordial game. The win at all costs ... we are not playing for grocery money. I prefer to win but my first preference is to contemplate the puzzle while having an interesting conversation with someone with whom I have shared interests. Some of my best games found me getting my clock cleaned and some of my least enjoyable games had me winning. Pleasure and victory do not have a 1:1 correlation, some correlation but not 1:1.
Same here, I'll call out stuff that's clearly in my best interest to ignore, if I'm aware my opponent forgot to repair his HMG that malf'd last turn, I'll point it out.
Something like that is a big deal to the outcome of the scenario, so I'd feel bad about letting it go by unnoticed. And if we both forgot then realized close enough to the end of the Rally Phase, I'll say roll for it.
Lord knows I've forgotten more than my share of repair rolls for SW mixed in stacks.

I don't play in tournaments, so it's strictly casual play, remembering the rules is part of the challenge, though I don't use that as a tool to win.
I always play to win (even against my son who's still a beginner, I just give him a lot of help/hints), but if it's been a fun game I'd assess that as a win for both players regardless of which side won.
If it comes down to the last player turn and it's still undecided you know you've both done your best, and that's all we can do.

=================================================================================

That said, everyone is different, just like there are fast players and slow players, so I guess it makes more sense to find players whose approach to a game is compatible.
In regards to actual cheating, it's probably pretty rare and definitely hard to be sure what the player's intent really is, unless it becomes obvious via repeat incidents of conveniently 'forgetting'.
I've only ever played one person who did cheat (though not ASL). Our group just stopped inviting him to games.
He's still my friend and now will admit it (it's been more than 30 years).
 

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That said, everyone is different, just like there are fast players and slow players, so I guess it makes more sense to find players whose approach to a game is compatible.
In regards to actual cheating, it's probably pretty rare and definitely hard to be sure what the player's intent really is, unless it becomes obvious via repeat incidents of conveniently 'forgetting'.
I've only ever played one person who did cheat (though not ASL). Our group just stopped inviting him to games.
He's still my friend and now will admit it (it's been more than 30 years).
For me, that is the tradeoff. If we cut each other some slack, then we can play faster. If we play strictly ASOP, then we finish tomorrow and that is just turn 1.
 

Actionjick

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Same here, I'll call out stuff that's clearly in my best interest to ignore, if I'm aware my opponent forgot to repair his HMG that malf'd last turn, I'll point it out.
Something like that is a big deal to the outcome of the scenario, so I'd feel bad about letting it go by unnoticed. And if we both forgot then realized close enough to the end of the Rally Phase, I'll say roll for it.
Lord knows I've forgotten more than my share of repair rolls for SW mixed in stacks.

I don't play in tournaments, so it's strictly casual play, remembering the rules is part of the challenge, though I don't use that as a tool to win.
I always play to win (even against my son who's still a beginner, I just give him a lot of help/hints), but if it's been a fun game I'd assess that as a win for both players regardless of which side won.
If it comes down to the last player turn and it's still undecided you know you've both done your best, and that's all we can do.

=================================================================================

That said, everyone is different, just like there are fast players and slow players, so I guess it makes more sense to find players whose approach to a game is compatible.
In regards to actual cheating, it's probably pretty rare and definitely hard to be sure what the player's intent really is, unless it becomes obvious via repeat incidents of conveniently 'forgetting'.
I've only ever played one person who did cheat (though not ASL). Our group just stopped inviting him to games.
He's still my friend and now will admit it (it's been more than 30 years).
Nice post.🤗
 

Actionjick

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For me, that is the tradeoff. If we cut each other some slack, then we can play faster. If we play strictly ASOP, then we finish tomorrow and that is just turn 1.
Exactly. We always cut each other some slack. Especially at 3:00 AM after two or three pots of coffee and other refreshments. It's just a game, enjoy it and don't sweat the load.

Ok, it is the best game I've ever played but wtf, still just a game. 😉
 

ibncalb

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Has anyone ever done this, and why?
As the American player in the Toktong Pass scenarios I regularly left off Fox/shellholes which other wise would have benefited the Chinese attacker more than my marines.
 

brunger

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As the American player in the Toktong Pass scenarios I regularly left off Fox/shellholes which other wise would have benefited the Chinese attacker more than my marines.
Surely you wouldn’t have control over the shell holes placement ?? You must have god like powers!! 🤔😅

Take away Chinese advantages ?? 😬. I avoid comments.
 

Yuri0352

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As the American player in the Toktong Pass scenarios I regularly left off Fox/shellholes which other wise would have benefited the Chinese attacker more than my marines.
I'm certainly no expert, however I must have missed those historical accounts of the USMC working parties tasked with filling in entrenchment and shellholes during lulls in the fighting.
Ahistorical gaminess.
 

Actionjick

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I'm certainly no expert, however I must have missed those historical accounts of the USMC working parties tasked with filling in entrenchment and shellholes during lulls in the fighting.
Ahistorical gaminess.
They hauled drunken sailors, ie. any squid, out of the brig to do it.😉
 

Robin Reeve

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I'm certainly no expert, however I must have missed those historical accounts of the USMC working parties tasked with filling in entrenchment and shellholes during lulls in the fighting.
Ahistorical gaminess.
Countering a designer's choices (or even whims) can hardly be called ahistorical.
Or do you think that real life terrain is made of hexes too?
 
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