- May 25, 2005
- Reaction score
- Teutoburger Wald
Good evening, Vinnie,A stream becomes a frigid water obstacle. This does not become dry except for movement purposes.
JRA dry stream is not the same as a gully when there are woods/brush/orchard in the hex: B33....
The stream is not dry. The stream is shallow so B20.41 has no application here.Good evening, Vinnie,
SSR aside, that is not what B20.41 says. It clearly states that in the case of a dry stream "...it is considered a gully for all purposes,..." not just movement.
By your reasoning a marsh hex that is also dry would still be marsh and not mud flats. The application of B20.41 is the same. And as there is a seeming contradiction between B20.7 and B20.8, E2 is applied and B20.8-B20.82 would stand.
That is my view of the rules as written (RAW) as well as COWTRA.
Apologies Gents but I was away in the country over the weekend (taking possession of what will be my retirement property).This is how I see it....<snip>
...So per B20.81 "movement into" a "ford stream hex" is treated as if the stream is one level shallower - it doesn't say (and it was rules that way) that hex is treated as shallower (in this case dry) for all purposes - i.e., per B20.41....<snip>
We will have to agree to disagree Vinnie. The Ford in a Shallow Stream hex reduces the water level from shallow to dry and thus it lacks any form of water (obstacle). This makes it a gully.The stream is not dry. The stream is shallow so B20.41 has no application here.
B20.81 is the controlling section and this clearly deals only with movement into the stream. Since B20.7 turns the entire stream into a frigid water obstacle, and this hex is part of the stream, I do not think your arguement is valid.
Technically you could. As the hex lacks any form of water (obstacle) it would be eligible terrain just as any Gully hex would be. If the Stream were Deep the scenario changes due to the Ford now possessing a Shallow Stream as opposed to a Dry Gully.F (sic) you treat the hex as "dry" for all purposes then you can place trenches and foxhole in Ford's too.
IMO, you are cutting the B20.81 quote a bit short:In fact B20.81 specifically refers to this case "...treated as if the water depth were one level shallower (dry rather than shallow; deep rather than flooded)."
In this case B20.41 is even more prominent. If the entire Stream is Dry then it ceases to exist as a Stream and becomes a Gully for all purposes. What I am arguing is that it is irrelevant whether the entire Stream is Dry or if only one hex is Dry (which would normally require a Ford). Other terrain in the hex would be applied as per the pertinent rules depending on the water depth (if any) of the hex.There is a big difference between streams and gullies when combined with other terrain. In gullies the other terrain exist IN the depression, in streams no.. this point affects a lot Loses and cost in MFs when moving along the depression