DONATIONS

[Jazz]

I'll get flak for this, but while I love the game, frankly, I wouldn't drink with Curt.

MMP sinks or swims based on whether they can or can't survive.

There are businesses and business persons I like and or respect out there. MMP isn't on that list.

<shrug> I wouldn't drink with him either. That does not impact my opinion or respect for MMP.

It is much much more than the sum of the money that he has thrown into the kitty.

 

[olli]

Yeah, that's the down side of being a public figure and then interjecting your personal politics I to the arena. If I were a famous person, marketing my self or a product. I would never let my own personal politics known. Otherwise you risk alienating half of your audience/customers. Regardless of which spectrum they hail from.

But as you say. A business sinks or swims on its own.

So true, full of his own self importance and all the rest……..

 

[Paul John]

Curt also said he has invested a substantial amount of his own money into the hobby to keep it going.

From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs I guess.

 

[BattleSchool]

[X] does not impact my opinion or respect for MMP.

It is much much more than the sum of the money that he has thrown into the kitty.

Agreed.

The folks at MMP could well have done something else with their time and money--spent more time with their families, for instance.

Instead, they have devoted an inordinate amount of time and money to keeping an extremely niche game alive and kicking.

Their customers have signalled their approval not only by contributing to the firm's bottom line, but also by volunteering their own time (and in some cases money) to the development of MMP pubs.

Me thinks the balance sheet is as even as it's gonna get.

 

[Actionjick]

Agreed.

The folks at MMP could well have done something else with their time and money--spent more time with their families, for instance.

Instead, they have devoted an inordinate amount of time and money to keeping an extremely niche game alive and kicking.

Their customers have signalled their approval not only by contributing to the firm's bottom line, but also by volunteering their own time (and in some cases money) to the development of MMP pubs.

Me thinks the balance sheet is as even as it's gonna get.

Very nicely put.

 

[drchilds]

Jeff Livesay posted this on FB.

And who is he, exactly?

 

[Honza]

And who is he, exactly?

I don't know him, but he is very knowledgeable about copyright and trademark law. He wrote a very comprehensive post detailing all the aspects of ASL's copyright and trademark.

 

[Gunner Scott]

MMP has done some great journals and modules, I dont think they really need donations but as one poster put it, they as well as everyother ASL publisher could always use help in the proofing and playtest section. If real life was not such a horrific situation for me, I would try to help.

 

[zgrose]

I don't know him, but he is very knowledgeable about copyright and trademark law. He wrote a very comprehensive post detailing all the aspects of ASL's copyright and trademark.

So are the Nigerian princes...

 

[hongkongwargamer]

I always believe if you can’t say it in a few sentences, you don’t understand the topic.

Anything longer is likely to be throwing bullsh1t into a snow flurry.

But heck, Jeff might well be an expert. Don’t know the man but what do I know?

Anyway, when’s Marco Polo going preorder?

 

[drchilds]

I don't know him, but he is very knowledgeable about copyright and trademark law. He wrote a very comprehensive post detailing all the aspects of ASL's copyright and trademark.

All of the attorneys who I've ever asked about issues like this invariably related how complicated the issue is, and would never go into great detail in person, much less in a public forum. So... Unless he's a copyright attorney (which I doubt given the fact he's focused so much on trademark and is using publicly accessible sites to show it) I'm pretty sure he's full of shit.

I don't have any dog in this hunt, by the way.

 

[Neal]

There are businesses and business persons I like and or respect out there. MMP isn't on that list.

Why are you even here then? Why spend time and energy on something you don't appear to like?

 

[Actionjick]

Why are you even here then? Why spend time and energy on something you don't appear to like?

Have you ever met a woman?

 

[L Bunny Niyori]

Why are you even here then? Why spend time and energy on something you don't appear to like?

I liked Squad Leader long before MMP existed. I owned most of ASL before MMP existed.
I have never ever said I didn't like Squad Leader or ASL.
The thing is, MMP isn't ASL any more than WotC is D&D. It's all owned by Hasbro. There is nothing nice to say about Hasbro.
It's nice that MMP kept the game going. Sort of. I think the game was fine before MMP touched it. I have not minded getting lots of new boards. I think any one of us could have made the new boards. I'd have survived without obscure Hungarian armour though.
I think MMP likely could have done better, if Hasbro wasn't in the picture.
Considering the spectacle that is Hasbro recently with WotC and D&D, I'm wondering if MMP and ASL is in need of concern.

I DO sometimes wonder why I'm here though Neal

 

[TopT]

Without MMP, there would not have been anymore ASL
There were no others stepping up to bring ASL back. TTP's couldn't have come close to covering it
You, and many others, would not have been able to get back into ASL just because the product would not have been available to re-purchase
JMO

 

[olli]

A

Without MMP, there would not have been anymore ASL
There were no others stepping up to bring ASL back. TTP's couldn't have come close to covering it
You, and many others, would not have been able to get back into ASL just because the product would not have been available to re-purchase
JMO

then without the TPP, s in the 90’s to keep our interest there may not of been MMP

 

[L Bunny Niyori]

Without MMP, there would not have been anymore ASL
There were no others stepping up to bring ASL back. TTP's couldn't have come close to covering it
You, and many others, would not have been able to get back into ASL just because the product would not have been available to re-purchase
JMO

Those are assumptions and conclusions that are likely reasonable. But the truth is we don't know anything past the fact that Hasbro OWNS the product. Hasbro owns Up Front. I don't know who initiated putting it on DrivThruRPG via Wargamers Vault. But someone clearly arranged it. Could this have been done with ASL? Well a better question is why not?

Forcing me to buy 2nd 3rd and further editions for 2 and 3 times the price the original isn't doing me a lot of favours.
ASL arrived as a product that was 30 and 60 bucks an item. That was not cheap, but also not over the top expensive either.
Croix de Guerre 2nd edition is selling at 180 bucks plus taxes and plus shipping. It was a 30 to 40 dollar purchase when I bought it the first time. Selling it to me at over 200 bucks is not doing me a favour. Croix de Guerre is worth 10 bucks as a pdf, and about 10 bucks at a proper professional printer in colour on card stock.
I'm not saying eeeeveryone is interested in printing their own ASL materials. But considering what some will spend on Raaco containers, dice towers, and the effort to counter clip needed, I think saying it is asking too much, is saying something I can't support.
I should mention, I have printed counters on double sided card stock, as well as printed counters as single sided and then glued together (2 layers of card stock) and there is no counter clipping needed. I can make them bigger, or smaller. The maps, I can make them paper (for under plexi, or on card stock (about the same as currently sold) or mounted by just attaching them to old beat up worn out otherwise valuless old boards (doesn't even need to be ASL boards).

So did MMP save us? Yes, I won't say they didn't. But, they did it for an incredible price.

But it's not like MMP is the only company out there pricing wargames for outrageous prices. I love Third Reich. I prefer it as A3R. It currently exists as World at War. And at 200 bucks plus taxes and shipping is closer to 250 likely. I'd rather buy a used copy of A3R. But that likely will be a lot more than the 30 bucks I paid for mine. Fortunately I still have mine.

It's not that I can't come up with 200 bucks for something I want. The only reason I don't have a 200th scale Enterprise model for 400 bucks, is I don't have anywhere to display a model that big I'd rather not pay 400 bucks of course.

I DO regret ditching my original ASL gear. I had it all. All the Annuals/Journals. 1-52 mounted. I didn't have DB or AoO though. But I had Chinese I never used. Japanese I never played. Desert boards I don't like. And the HASL I had no space for I had SASL as well. I didn't have the Starters I didn't need. If I won the lottery, I'd likely get it all over again, but if I won a handful of millions, even ASL wouldn't matter much for price.

I DO have a computer, and I do have access to a great print service. And I DO have ALL the maps, including the ones I don't really need. And all the counters and all the scenarios. I could even make the boxes if I was truly nuts And I'm not saying anything that really matters. You can get all the maps for instance from asl players net. And I asked them about this, and they said there was no problem (not sure how, but I didn't feel like complaining).

So, again, do we actually need MMP? It depends. Do you 'enjoy' paying 200 bucks for a product released in the 90s for 30 bucks up to 60 bucks? I have the image that describes all the font sizes and types of an ASL counter. A tiger tanks is a tiger tank. It's just an image. We all COULD make counters if we felt like it. Granted, it assumes a skill set, and a desire. I have no interest in programming, even if I could. Chances of me making software for old SPI titles of old wargames of the 70s is zero. So when I comment on why are there no SPI titles on computer, I'm left with the knowledge, well I couldn't do it, could others do it? I'll guess there are, but maybe no one cares.

The difference between a Squad Leader counter and an ASL counter is the data present on the counter. I can turn an ASL counter into a Squad Leader counter in about 20 seconds. Colour match the counter, use spray can tool, remove any data unwanted, alter any data desired. Poof new counter. I don't need MMP to officially market it. I just can't sell it (no one encourages the wrath of Hasbro).

It's just a game. I also wonder why people pay insane prices for original Magic the Gathering cards. It's just a game, make copies, enjoy playing. But people do pay and they carefully sleeve their precious power 9 originals. I'm not paying insane prices though.

I do NOT advocate piracy. Because to do so is idiotic for starters. Good way to get banned as well.
I recently offered someone some ATM counters. Originals. Which I have no reason to miss. Never use em. I didn't want anything for them, to me they had no value. Cost me a couple of bucks for a stamp.
I know I can get gazillions of ASL counters on places like eBay. Some times you find a whole ASL set on eBay for peanuts.
Sadly, ASLers have died, likely will do that more. I'm 62. Man I have a lot of cool valuable stuff here. Worth a fortune if anyone can figure out how to sell when I'm gone.

There's a lot of ASL out there. There's a lot of Squad Leader out there. Without MMP, it would still be out there too.
But maybe no obscure Hungarian armour. Might only be West of Alamein, and no For King and Country. Only 1st edition versions of modules. Likely fewer maps. Well, official ones. The game would have survived. All you get with the Starters, is a diversional product that has only provided some a means to avoid buying the others. I think 1,2 and 3 should have been released as one bigger product called ASL Basic. But one item for double the price of one module comes out as less money than 3 separate modules. It's the DLC game.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

Croix De Guerre is surely worth a heck more than 10 bucks as a PDF. I am paying for the design and the work, not the cardboard.

 

[Ric of The LBC]

 

[trailrunner]

Croix de Guerre is worth 10 bucks as a pdf, and about 10 bucks at a proper professional printer in colour on card stock.

How much do you think the IP is worth?