Attention Mapmakers: Soviet villages

[von Marwitz]

View attachment 1874 This map of a Soviet village is on side A of a double-sided board that MMP recently introduced.

This one looks very good (albeit I agree that the hills are too high - by occupying the hills you can dominate the village).

The Fort-board layout (which I proposed up-thread for this very reason), allows for more than one single long road (and thus for more than only one single dominating FL as on bd48) and avoids Narrow Street issues that would not reflect the historical village terrain (space was ample, wo why should they have had narrow streets?). Yet it still captures the long village along a road.

von Marwitz

 

[RandyT0001]

I adjusted the hills by removing the double crests and adding vegetation. Here is the new version.

 

[Brian W]

The only criticism now is the crest lines tend to slop over the hexsides. This doesn't really affect play, but it is not the ASL convention so looks strange to the eye. Otherwise, Brian like.

 

[Robin Reeve]

The only criticism now is the crest lines tend to slop over the hexsides. This doesn't really affect play, but it is not the ASL convention so looks strange to the eye. Otherwise, Brian like.

It definitely should be corrected.
I would guess that those spilloffs would generate rule application issues.

 

[von Marwitz]

High hills in the vincinity will have a substantial effect on how this village will be fought over:

With the hills, MG's, Guns and AFV will set up or move onto the hills to dominate the village and movement within. The higher the hills and the better the LOS, the less blind hexes there will be within the village. The fight for the village might more become a fight for the heights dominating the village.

With low hills only (i.e. level 1 and maybe very few level 2 hill hexes), the action will be very different. It will more become a fight through the village, but still, as the buildings have rather wide gaps between each other - which is fine to depict this type of village - will still allow a significant effect of even level 1 hills due to good LOS. This could be alleviated by some Woods or better Orchards as these allow for different playing of the board depending on Season at the foot of the hills for example.

I believe the more 'village-fight' one wants, the lower and fewer the hills and the more obstructed the LOS from there needs to be.

If you want to depict a fight for the terrain dominating the village, the latter very well still being the ultimate objective, then you need high and many hills with good LOS.

In my personal imagination, I am thinking more of the 'village fight' engagements for the particular Russian type village seemed to be the original focus of the design intent.

von Marwitz

 

[RandyT0001]

Looks like I have to shift the terrain to the left, lower the hill height and redraw the hills to fit ASL convention.

 

[Robin Reeve]

High hills around a village already exist.
It is called board 3.

 

[von Marwitz]

High hills around a village already exist.
It is called board 3.

Sure enough. I believe 2a/b would also qualify. But the point is the type of village...

von Marwitz

 

[Paul M. Weir]

I have no problem with the hills or their height. Hills can represent almost any physical height, it's the relative height of buildings, woods and hills that matter. The same board could represent Alpine foothills with tall conifer woods and normal to high height buildings or represent rolling steppe with squat wind scoured patches of trees and low hovels. As long as a hill/building level is enough to completely mask an AFV/squad, then it's fine, any lower and you need Hillocks.

 

[Brian W]

Hills can represent almost any physical height, it's the relative height of buildings, woods and hills that matter.

It's more than that as it affects movement, especially AFV movement that cannot cross double crests.

 

[Paul M. Weir]

It's more than that as it affects movement, especially AFV movement that cannot cross double crests.

In either representation hills still will slow down vehicles. We are not talking about modern cars on tarmac. As for double crests, a board with many of those would not be suitable for steppe, but a small number would not be out of the question. When we see Gullies aka balkas, these are caused by heavy rain run off cutting a channel. a double crest could represent the side of a rolling hill partly eroded by rain or dug out over years by humans needing soil/fill.

 

[RandyT0001]

Made corrections to meet ASL convention concerning hill crest lines. Made the hills lower and increased vegetation on them to limit vehicular movement.

 

[Brian W]

Well done. Print it!

 

[von Marwitz]

Getting better with every version.

von Marwitz

 

[Robin Reeve]

That is a nice one!

 

[jrv]

Note that having the crest line depiction in the higher-level hex is just common practice and isn't even always done on official maps. Board 15, for instance, has a couple of hexes where the crest lines are colored "outside of the lines." It's usually board 7 that confuses player, where the crest lines into the river are on the lower side of the crest line. No player should have any problem with this. It has an effect somewhat like Alpine Hills [B10.211], blocking relatively short LOSes as if there were slopes with deep cuts running down slope, which would make it harder to find places where fire could be placed across the slope. Because of the effect it has on LOS I would recommend it be used in places with very serrated contours rather than hills with smooth, continuously round lines. Perhaps it might be appropriate for something like Italy, some parts of Tunisia, perhaps the Balkans, the Caucasus Mountains, Norway, and/or Greece. It is not illegal nor even immoral to have the crest line depiction on the far side of the hexside. In this case I think it would not be appropriate in a "design for effect" sense.

JR

 

[Brian W]

I'm not sure I understand JR's post. Crest lines slopping over is not common, but do appear, especially along rivers and valleys. However, the crest line rules take this into account and there is an exception for LOS (see B10.2 EXC and Ex). However, for the most part, such crest line depiction is limited to rivers and valleys, especially in boards after ASL began publication.

 

[jrv]

I'm not sure I understand JR's post. Crest lines slopping over is not common, but do appear, especially along rivers and valleys. However, the crest line rules take this into account and there is an exception for LOS (see B10.2 EXC and Ex). However, for the most part, such crest line depiction is limited to rivers and valleys, especially in boards after ASL began publication.

View attachment 1892

I'm not sure I understand your response, but you do include the picture from the rulebook showing the 15Y3/Y4 hexside, where the crest line depiction is in the lower hex instead of the more common higher hex. I meant to include that, but I got caught up in other thoughts. Thank you.

If hex Z3 continued the pattern of having the crest line in the lower hex, something like B3 here, LOS from Y3 to AA3 would be blocked instead of open like it typically is. Y3 would be unable to fire on the whole front of the slope. In my example, if the crest line is in the upper level hex (B3 instead of B2), the LOS from A3 to C3 is clear. When the crest line is in the lower hex, there are fewer hexes on the front of the slope that can see the whole line at the current level, e.g. B2 can but A3 and C3 can't. LOS from A4 to B2 would also be blocked, and so instead of being a "smooth" hill, where you can see pretty much anywhere from anywhere else, with the crest line in the lower hex LOSes become much more limited. Only a few hexes can see clearly from side to side.



JR

 

[Brian W]

I ran through the VASL boards and I could not find any slop over crests apart from rivers. Maybe they were all cleaned up with the ASLSK style boards?

Anyway, I think you are saying that the 447 cannot see the 467.

 

[jrv]

I ran through the VASL boards and I could not find any slop over crests apart from rivers. Maybe they were all cleaned up with the ASLSK style boards?

Anyway, I think you are saying that the 447 cannot see the 467.

View attachment 1897

Definitely no LOS. The two units are at level minus one and the crest line is at level zero on both sides of the thread, forming an obstacle.

Board 15 R5 is another that actually has some practical impact, & 15Y3 has the artwork but little practical impact, both of which are not changed on the ASLSK-style boards. Otherwise I think there are only the ponds and river hexes. F3, G3 and H2 were converted to such hexes in the ASLSK-style board 47, but that was a mistake.

edit: there are a couple hexes on the Edson's Ridge map where the jungle canopy hides whether they are higher-level hexes or lower-level hexes with a higher-level crest line in them. That's yet another class of problem.

I like the idea of the guys out on the river shooting at each other. Perhaps we could do a "Wooden Ships & Iron Men" adaptation to ASL.

JR