AOO & ASLRB Update

[da priest]

...Despite your efforts to twist my words here, ...
...calling someone stupid does not.

Where did I call you stupid? Pray point it out. I did disagree with your opinions, guess that is a personal attack in some people's eyes, usually the opinion provider. chuckle.

Perhaps you are too subtle for them.

Never subtle, ever.

I do have to wonder about the character of a person who constantly attacks the poster and not the post.

If someone disagrees with you, you call it a personal attack. Paranoia does strike deeep.

Obviously I don't have all of the pertinent information -- otherwise I would not need to seek it.

Well go back to your post, I don't see anything requesting information to make a decision, or evaluate the situation. Mostly I see declarative statements subteley and not so attacking MMP.

Now if you have some special insight, please share.

Insight to what? AoO, yes I do and I've posted on the subject several times.

I would ask you to place me on your ignore list, but we all saw how long that lasted with Scott. I guess you just missed him.

Nope, you don't get off that easy, I have a 20% rule, if your posts are at least 20% informational, insightful or thought stimulating I keep you around. Scott's still on my ignore list. Another cocksure opinion?

.

The part-time part I am trying to understand, since quite a few ASL players would jump at the chance to get a full-time designer job. Numerous other items would be what exactly?

Sigh, this is the cause of my questions to you, what part of "I have a family to support, house payments to make, transportation for the family to arrange, etc", "MMP income MAY support us, but it may not," and "I have an income far above what MMP can probably provide, do I dump it to chance it?" don't you understand?

As to your sig line, I do find it hilarious in one who expresses himself in what I see, as a very cocksure manner.

And as for my posting mannerisms that seem to bother you, read my sig line...been there for over a decade. I will not change.

 

[paulkenny]

Cocksure?

:surprise:

 

[KG_Kharkov]

I find it interesting that we as a group can't seem to have an informed debate on how MMP could improve the hobby without it degenerating into a bash-fest of the people who post. I posted earlier and admit that I got my dates mixed up on my calls to MMP (I called twice -- both before and after Christmas b/c I had to update my credit card information -- it's been that long that I've had my pre-order in) but I don't see how Da Priest's response to my post furthers the discussion of whether MMP is appropriately placing resources on ASL vis-a-vis other games.

Da Priest's response that MMP posts here doesn't answer the question of whether MMP effectively communicates with the player base. I'm sure plenty of ASL players don't belong to this forum so the safer bet would be to use your website as the focal point for communications. Plus, having to root through numerous posts just to find Keith Dalton's doesn't strike me as an overly effective communication strategy by the company. If they want to communicate clearly with players here, why not just give them a dedicated posting area (i.e. Official MMP Communications or something like that). As a simple test, go to MMP site and pretend you are a new player -- can you figure out how to get to this forum from their website (there may be a link somewhere but I can't find it).


Criticism is healthy if it produces a better hobby and product at the end of the day. Just my two cents.

 

[WaterRabbit]

Where did I call you stupid? Pray point it out. I did disagree with your opinions, guess that is a personal attack in some people's eyes, usually the opinion provider. chuckle.

If someone disagrees with you, you call it a personal attack. Paranoia does strike deeep.

You know, I might have been born yesterday, but I wasn't born last night. This attempt at feigned innocence hardly becomes you. A man would either have apologized and admitted his remarks were out of bounds or told me to screw-off and not try to weasel of understanding the implications of what he wrote.

Well go back to your post, I don't see anything requesting information to make a decision, or evaluate the situation. Mostly I see declarative statements subteley and not so attacking MMP.

Anyone who posts anything other than heaping praise toward MMP you see as an attack against them. You see what you want to see instead of reading what is actually there.

Nope, you don't get off that easy, I have a 20% rule, if your posts are at least 20% informational, insightful or thought stimulating I keep you around. Scott's still on my ignore list. Another cocksure opinion?

This Thread directly contradicts you.

Sigh, this is the cause of my questions to you, what part of "I have a family to support, house payments to make, transportation for the family to arrange, etc", "MMP income MAY support us, but it may not," and "I have an income far above what MMP can probably provide, do I dump it to chance it?" don't you understand?

Apparently you don't understand the difference between a single-owner business and an LLC. These factors are summed up with a single word - salary. They are thus irrelevant to the discussion except with respect to whether the LLC can afford the salary of a designer. That is the part I don't understand.

As to your sig line, I do find it hilarious in one who expresses himself in what I see, as a very cocksure manner.

Then you aren't reading critically enough or are again reading what you want to believe. Also I you understood anything about Bertrand Russell you might have a different opinion.

And as for my posting mannerisms that seem to bother you, read my sig line...been there for over a decade. I will not change.

Being a curmudgeon does not excuse rude, insulting, and disrespectful behavior.

 

[WaterRabbit]

I find it interesting that we as a group can't seem to have an informed debate on how MMP could improve the hobby without it degenerating into a bash-fest of the people who post. I posted earlier and admit that I got my dates mixed up on my calls to MMP (I called twice -- both before and after Christmas b/c I had to update my credit card information -- it's been that long that I've had my pre-order in) but I don't see how Da Priest's response to my post furthers the discussion of whether MMP is appropriately placing resources on ASL vis-a-vis other games.

Da Priest's response that MMP posts here doesn't answer the question of whether MMP effectively communicates with the player base. I'm sure plenty of ASL players don't belong to this forum so the safer bet would be to use your website as the focal point for communications. Plus, having to root through numerous posts just to find Keith Dalton's doesn't strike me as an overly effective communication strategy by the company. If they want to communicate clearly with players here, why not just give them a dedicated posting area (i.e. Official MMP Communications or something like that). As a simple test, go to MMP site and pretend you are a new player -- can you figure out how to get to this forum from their website (there may be a link somewhere but I can't find it).


Criticism is healthy if it produces a better hobby and product at the end of the day. Just my two cents.

I heartily agree with you. I have been expressing the same sentiment for several months now.

 

[Gunner Scott]

Guy's do what most people have done and just put PVT Mosher in your ignore list. He really contributes nothing to ASL other then being MMP's Party commissar and company lacky.

As for MMP, Might as well give it up as far as criticism is concerned, yause has already stated that MMP will do as they like no matter what we say. Gee, it reminds me of when I used to playtest for them.


Scott

 

[da priest]

..
This Thread directly contradicts you.

Sigh, try again, he is still on the ignore list, all my comments do is show I can read a poll...geesh. :laugh:

Also I you understood anything about Bertrand Russell you might have a different opinion.

This is funny, did a lengthy term paper on old Bertie, probably before you were born. :smoke:

Now on the MMP thing, I'm critical when it is called for, but I seem to understand the difference between a sole proprietership run for income to support one's self, and an LLC for legal protection to prolong a niche of a niche hobby. Note you can have an LLC with no income, LLCs do not generate income by just existing.

MMP simply does not make the income to provide a full time developer(and his family, if he has one) with an adequate salary and benefits. What's so hard to understand about that?:bandit:

 

[DLYoung70]

See, this is why debate is fun. I agree with those posting against Ron that he rips anyone who has something negative to say about MMP, because all too often it's true. But I also agree with his comment that "MMP simply does not make the income to provide a full time developer(and his family, if he has one) with an adequate salary and benefits." This is also very true. These guys have day jobs for a reason.

However it does make me wonder if this is a chicken/egg scenario. If there was a full time developer, then presumably items like AoO, J6, VoTG, SK2, etc. would actually get done in a timely manner. This means the income of MMP would increase, because instead of a few lame old titles to sell they'd have new products going out the door, and maybe even (say it ain't so!) the ability to keep core material from going OOP.

So it's concievable we can choose from two possibilities:

1) No FT developer, trickle of product, little or no income.

2) Hire a FT developer, product flows, income follows accordingly.

The question is then simply this... would the increased income generated by having someone working on getting product out the door 8 hours a day be able to offset the cost of this person (or persons)? The answer seems to be "yes" for the Gamers line, with Dean being brought onboard for ostensibly the same purpose we're asking for an ASL developer. But for ASL?

And please, don't pretend you have the answer to this. The MMP supporters are going to say if it was possible then of course MMP would do it so we could all live in peace. The MMP bashers are going to say that the insiders (Brian, Perry, etc.) don't want to farm the work out (and pay someone to do it) for reasons related to ego. But the truth is that no one really knows.

Chicken? Egg?

Darrell

 

[Pvt Lobo]

Now that was a blast.

There is nothing better than sitting at my desk at work, ignoring the telephone, ignoring all the work I must do and reading a long and angry thread about AoO.

I started playing ASL just seven short years ago, and I've known about AoO from the beginnig. I just hope we get it soon.

Seth

 

[Gunner Scott]

I think MMP needs to just walk away from ASL.


Scott

 

[Sgt. Przybylo]

Then what?

Then what? Dont they hold the license? Who will take it up?

 

[Countertroll]

I do not allow Mark P to speak for me, nor can you Scott. Watch who 'us' is in your posts before you say things as silly as MMP is 'against us'. More accurately would be tired of 'you' and equally tired of not having AoO out.
I look forward to what chicken little scenario you will propose next once AOO does ship. (and I hope we at least have a date by WO)

 

[Pitman]

Scott, you are doing it again. Behave yourself.

As for what others have posted, it is not true that Ron Mosher attacks anyone who disagrees with MMP.

 

[RobZagnut]

>I think MMP needs to just walk away from ASL.

>MMP is not with us, they are against us.

SysOp, please remind/warn Scott Holst about what he agreed to do last week (7 short days ago). He says he will behave and turns around and completely ignores what you've asked him to do. Doesn't an infraction like the two above warrant at least a 5 day suspension of his posting privileges? A slap on the rest doesn't affect this guy.

 

[Chas Argent]

Agreed.

 

[Jay White]

I also agree. Seriously counterproductive comments.

 

[Reepicheep]

We're all agreed and working on it.

 

[Gunner Scott]

I'll tell ya what, since MMP and its supporters own this forum, I'll just move on.

take care and have fun

Scott


[and parting comment directed at MMP deleted - Reepicheep]

 

[Mark Warren]

Scott,

You obviously really enjoy ASL, even passionate about it. Otherwise I guess you wouldn't hold such strong views.

For the good of the hobby though I think you really need to understand constructive criticism. MMP welcome this sort of criticism and its the sort that is good for the game. Everyone wins.

The sort that you dish out most of the time (not all the time), is just destructive. It hurts MMP (the holder of the license for the next 5 years or so) and it alienates yourself (a passionate player of the game). Everyone loses.

Think it over.

 

[Loquitor]

Well I guess I can't be too far behind.