8-1 AL in a Tiger

[commissarmatt]

If an 8-1 armor leader is put in a Tiger, does the crew have 9 morale or 8 morale? I'd argue that the rules about armor leaders in ch. D say the crew would have morale 8, but the ch. H notes about Tiger crew morale supersede. Correct?

 

[Vinnie]

counter.

K A Tiger crew was the crème de la crème of the Panzer force. Therefore, as an inherent crew its morale is 9 (signified by "ML:9" on the counter) and the Tiger's printed APCR Depletion number (if one is present on the counter) is one higher than normal.


revealed.

3.42 The inherent crew of a vehicle always has the same Morale Level as any armour Leader in that vehicle. Should the armour Leader pass/fail his MC/TC, the crew passes/fails also; a separate MC/TC DR for each is never made.

I think the terms of D3.32 are clear that the morale will be that of the AL, thus 8. On a practicalnote, how to you deal with an MC that breaks the AM but not the crew?

 

[Paul M. Weir]

On a practicalnote, how to you deal with an MC that breaks the AM but not the crew?

The AL becomes the crew, the crew becomes the AL, it's a Zen thing, man.

Maybe the the whole crew took too much Pervitin/Panzerschokolade with their ersatz coffee that morning, they are extra sharp but also a bit a bit twitchy and paranoid.

 

[commissarmatt]

Well ch. H is later than ch. D so it seems to me that it would be 9 morale in the Tiger. What I mean by that is, the 8-1 AL effectively becomes a 9-1 AL if he's put in a Tiger, not that there would be separate morale levels for crew and leader, since they 'become one' in Paul's zen phrasing.

 

[Vinnie]

An 8-1 Can never become a 9-1 AL. Since he is the one taking the MC or TC, effectively it is 8 morale.

 

[Paul M. Weir]

When I was googling "panzer chocolate" (Panzerschokolade) to check the German spelling, I came across this:

I suppose the Hidden Secret Nazi Lair/Nazi Resurection Cult tropes are still a long way from being exhausted.

 

[commissarmatt]

Well, ch. H comes after ch. D so I'm still not convinced that it's that cut and dried.

 

[jrv]

Well, ch. H comes after ch. D so I'm still not convinced that it's that cut and dried.

I think you have come up with an odd case. I would probably play the 8-1 as 8 ML because I wouldn't expect an inexperienced crew (implicit 6+1 AL) to become a 9+1 crew in a Tiger. But that's my guess, and you'd probably be best sending this off for a Q&A. I don't think you will find a satisfactory answer here.

JR

 

[Hemaelstrom]

When I was googling "panzer chocolate" (Panzerschokolade) to check the German spelling, I came across this:

I suppose the Hidden Secret Nazi Lair/Nazi Resurection Cult tropes are still a long way from being exhausted.

I want what she's having.

 

[Paul M. Weir]

I want what she's having.

The chocolate, dick or knife blade?

 

[Hemaelstrom]

The chocolate, dick or knife blade?

Do i have to choose just one?

 

[76mm]

What about Section H1.43, which says:
"If an Armor Leader is received but with a lower morale than the inherent crew in all three AFV, one whose morale equals that of the lowest inherent crew morale in those three AFV may be substituted, provided that the leadership DRM doeds not also improve."

At least that's what it says in the 1st Edition rules, my copy of the 2nd Edition doesn't include Section H... :-(

 

[Binchois]

I think JR is correct that you're not going to find a "correct" answer from either the RB or us Forumites. So definitely write to Perry on this.

But until the "official" answer appears, I would conclude (and prefer) that D3.42 always applies:

D3.42 The inherent crew of a vehicle always has the same Morale Level as any Armor Leader in that vehicle. Should the Armor Leader pass/fail his MC/TC, the crew passes/fails also; a separate MC/TC DR for each is never made.​

​

Putting an 8-1 leader in a Tiger shouldn't be a way to cheat the OoB into giving you a 9-1 AL. The dude obviously isn't among the crème de la crème, so the Tiger's crew should be penalized simply for having to put up with him.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

What about Section H1.43, which says:

H1.43 is only for DYO purposes.

 

[RRschultze]

Not sure that the creme de la creme was in tigers, other than Wittman. I’ve read that the majority of Tiger 2 crews were rookies.

 

[Paul M. Weir]

Would we be discussing this if the "AL" was a 6+1 Inexperienced Crew? Seems to me that an AL of any type overrides both Nationality defaults and vehicular notes.

 

[Robin Reeve]

other than Wittman

He finished as gore of the gore. ?
A British firefly got him (I think that this is debated, however), so I presume that British Firefly crews should have 9 morale.