Valor of the Guards crest line

[veron]

Hey all,

in parts of Valor of the Guards map the crest line is on the other side of the hexside where it usually is, f.ex. between W1 and X1.



I'm assuming this is for aesthetic purposes as mentioned in B.1, i.e., there still is LOS from W1 to X1 and Y2? What about from W1 to X2?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

This situation is handled by B10.2 - specifically the EXC.

10.2 DIFFERENT LEVEL LOS: A lower level unit may trace a LOS into only the initial Crest Line hexside of each level above it. Likewise, a unit may trace a LOS to a lower level only if the higher unit traces its LOS through a Crest Line as it leaves its hex and this LOS never re-crosses another Crest Line of the same or higher elevation [EXC: A unit may always trace a LOS through a Crest Line in an adjacent hex of lower elevation (15Y4 can fire through Y3 to Y2 and along the Y3-Z3 hexside to Z2 but it cannot fire through Z3 to AA3)]. Even if a LOS survives this test it can still be blocked by other requirements such as 10.23.

I think this is really meant to handle how some of the old SL-to-GI-era maps were drawn.

 

[veron]

Ah! I missed that, thanks Klas.

 

[jrv]

The LOS from W1 to X1 & Y2 are clear, as per B10.2. The LOS from W1 to X2 is blocked because of the bit of level one terrain on both sides of the W2/X1 hexside, i.e. the LOS does not cross the crest line in the adjacent lower level hex. This is also true of other LOSes through X1 that are very close to W2. Until the LOS starts crossing the lower level of X1 before it exits the hex the LOS is blocked.

JR

 

[veron]

Yeah, that’s what I figured as well JR. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I think this rule comes into play when one is shooting down into a River from an adjacent hex as well - as those crest lines are usually drawn in the river hexes, IIRC.

 

[volgaG68]

I think this rule comes into play when one is shooting down into a River from an adjacent hex as well - as those crest lines are usually drawn in the river hexes, IIRC.

I, among others, have seemingly been misplaying this precise example you give, especially on some of the BFP maps.

 

[jrv]

Board 7 at the river's edge frequently confuses players, and this style for river's edges continues with board 6a(b) & other later river boards. I would have thought that this style of crest line might be used for the Korean boards but it is not. It would make for a more jagged hill rather than smooth, especially in conjunction with Alpine Hills [B10.211]. There's no reason that the style could not be used on more recent vintage maps but that map makers (and players) think that crest lines must be on the "inside" of the hexside.

JR

 

[volgaG68]

I think this rule comes into play when one is shooting down into a River from an adjacent hex as well - as those crest lines are usually drawn in the river hexes, IIRC.

Board 7 at the river's edge frequently confuses players...

So, this same rules principle would apply in the following situation? You are in a woods hex bordering a river hex. The crest line is in the hex containing the river as well as a portion of woods graphics on that river-hex crest line. I see now that I could fire on an enemy there...but...kind of similar to a woods-road hex, would the enemy in the river receive the +1 TEM of the woods because there is woods graphics on his side of the hexside as well? Kind of like on BFP O, EE5 firing at FF5.

 

[jrv]

So, this same rules principle would apply in the following situation? You are in a woods hex bordering a river hex. The crest line is in the hex containing the river as well as a portion of woods graphics on that river-hex crest line. I see now that I could fire on an enemy there...but...kind of similar to a woods-road hex, would the enemy in the river receive the +1 TEM of the woods because there is woods graphics on his side of the hexside as well? Kind of like on BFP O, EE5 firing at FF5.

In the absence of an explanation from BFP, my best guess is that they intend it to be like a stream-woods hex [B33], and that units in the water obstacle benefit from the woods TEM as per B33.13. This is only my guess as to what was intended. Note also that the fractional woods block LOS from the land so there is, for instance, no LOS from O-FF8 to O-FF4, or indeed to O-FF6.

JR

 

[Sully]

I think this is really meant to handle how some of the old SL-to-GI-era maps were drawn.

I think the original motivation was to simplify beaching boats (E5.23).

Store this rule in the bin marked "Why have simple rules when complicated ones will do?" Maybe it's me but the wording goes in one ear and out the other.

 

[jrv]

Outside crest lines not on rivers appeared pretty early. There are examples on board 15. They just weren't used that often after that, and probably for that reason they are unfamiliar to most players.

JR

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I think the original motivation was to simplify beaching boats (E5.23).

Store this rule in the bin marked "Why have simple rules when complicated ones will do?" Maybe it's me but the wording goes in one ear and out the other.

I would be surprised if that was the case, since Chapter E did not come with the original rulebook, but later in Chapter E. So I am sticking to my story.

 

[jrv]

The rules cover outie crest lines pretty well. They just don't appear on maps that often, and players aren't familiar with them.

JR

 

[Robin Reeve]

I would be surprised if that was the case, since Chapter E did not come with the original rulebook, but later in Chapter E. So I am sticking to my story.

The story is much older, as board 7 was published with Crescendo of Doom.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

The story is much older, as board 7 was published with Crescendo of Doom.

As I said in post #2 - the rule is likely there to accomodate old SL->GI era boards.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Quite like the building/woods hex rules.

 

[Sully]

I would be surprised if that was the case, since Chapter E did not come with the original rulebook, but later in Chapter E. So I am sticking to my story.

By E5.23 I really meant Squad Leader rule 126.62, where rivers with their annoying "reverse slope crest lines" were first introduced. But I think I was wrong about it being related to beaching.