Streams during snow?

[Paul S NJ]

Listeroids,

Was preparing for Devil's Congregation and had a question.

During 'regular' ground snow (not Deep Snow), is a stream with no ssr mentioned a dry gully or a frozen water obstacle? I can see it both ways and wanted some advice.

Thanks in advance,
Paul

 

[Brian W]

It is frozen, which means it is treated as a gully, B20.7. If it is flooded, I don't really know how it is played--rules say treat as dry gully, but at level 0. So, 2mf to enter, but no cost for going down/up a level?

 

[Paul S NJ]

Brian,
I see where you are coming from. Just reading chapter B I'd agree.

But in chapter E 3.722 terrain, it says ground snow 'freezes all streams, and activates all ice rules'. the comma I assume means the ice rules part only applies to water obstacles.

So it's only a water obstacle if by ssr the stream is flooded AND frozen.

Any second opinions?

 

[Brian W]

So it's only a water obstacle if by ssr the stream is flooded AND frozen.

I'm a bit slow, as I don't understand why an SSR would need to specify frozen. That is the default nature of water obstacles in ground snow weather, I think.

 

[Curtis Brooks]

I just played this scenario today and we treated the frozen stream as a gully, as the rules in chapter B state, which we assumed meant no chance for a tank to "fall through the ice".

 

[Jon]

There is a difference between a Frozen Stream [B20.7], a Frozen Water Obstacle [B21.6], and a frigid water obstacle [B20.7]


E3.722 "Ground Snow freezes all streams and activates all Ice rules (B20.7, B21.6)"

So in Ground Snow, all Water Obstacles (except ocean) i.e. Canals, Rivers and Ponds, freeze and are treated as Open Ground [B21.6]

Also Ground Snow freezes all streams. As per B20.7, a stream that is frozen is treated as a dry stream. The stream is designated as frozen by E3.722. B20.7 doesn't say "designated by SSR"

Streams only become a frigid Water Obstacle if the stream is non-dry, snow is present but the stream is not frozen. The only way I can see for Frigid Water Obstacles to exist is by SSR, since normally if Snow is present, the non-dry stream will be Frozen (E3.722) and therefore treated as a dry stream (B20.7). Something along the lines of "SSR#: Ground Snow is in effect. Streams are shallow but not frozen." or "SSR#: Ground Snow is in effect. Treat all streams as frigid."

Cheers
Jon

 

[Jon]

I just played this scenario today and we treated the frozen stream as a gully, as the rules in chapter B state, which we assumed meant no chance for a tank to "fall through the ice".

No chance to fall through Ice, since a Stream is NOT a Water Obstacle and therefore B21.6 is NA

Cheers
Jon

 

[Brian W]

The index lists a flooded stream as a water obstacle (which makes sense as it is treated like a pond). But that isn't the case in this scenario.

 

[James Taylor]

...if the stream is non-dry, ...
Jon

Gotta love ASL... Streams aren't "wet", they are non-dry.

JT