StME 5-3-7 Sturm troops

[Robin Reeve]

Okay, Time is relative. I usually think of late 1944 as late in WW2, but certainly June 1944 is relatively late. Klas explained the timing of the introduction of these units well. In the new paratrooper module, which German division do they represent? Tim

 

[Hutch]

In the new paratrooper module, which German division do they represent?

Sturm-Bataillon AOK 7, 7. Armee

Some information from Feldgrau.net website:

On June 5 the batallion was located east of Cherbourg. It counterattacked US forces in the St. Mere Eglise area on D-Day. The batallion remained north of US forces in the Cotentin and was among the units surrounded in Cherbourg. The artillery battery was not available to the batallion on D-Day. It was located southeast of Sainte-Mère-Église and was committed to support Fallschirmjäger Regiment 6 on D-Day.
Sturm Bataillon AOK 7 was destroyed at Cherbourg and was not rebuilt.

As noted by Robin in another thread, the Sturm will also appear in "Twilight of the Reich" as seen in the back page announcement of J14.

 

[Tim Niesen]

Thanks, folks. Now I think of 43 as the middle of the war. I suppose that these units were far more common in 1944 and 1945. I assume that after this unit ELRs (if that is a verb?), the resultant 436 unit can no longer use the FT in its possession? It would be interesting if the result 436 unit was marked differently than a 436 VG conscript and still maintained its Elite Status for FTs. Tim

 

[Gordon]

Thanks, folks. Now I think of 43 as the middle of the war. I suppose that these units were far more common in 1944 and 1945. I assume that after this unit ELRs (if that is a verb?), the resultant 436 unit can no longer use the FT in its possession? It would be interesting if the result 436 unit was marked differently than a 436 VG conscript and still maintained its Elite Status for FTs. Tim

Think of it as the geek who knew how to use the FT was the one who "bought it."

 

[Tim Niesen]

Okay. Seems logical.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Thanks, folks. Now I think of 43 as the middle of the war. I suppose that these units were far more common in 1944 and 1945. I assume that after this unit ELRs (if that is a verb?), the resultant 436 unit can no longer use the FT in its possession? It would be interesting if the result 436 unit was marked differently than a 436 VG conscript and still maintained its Elite Status for FTs. Tim

Note that Soviet 628 who are replaced by 527 or US 667 who are replaced by 666 face the same problem, as any units which don't have underscored morale.

 

[Tim Niesen]

Robin, Good point. Tim

 

[wrongway149]

Think of it as the geek who knew how to use the FT was the one who "bought it."

I dunno about you -- but I certainly wouldn't want anything to do with a Flamethrower after THAT.

 

[Zajuts149]

SM5 GERMAN STURM MMC: German Sturm MMC are 2nd Line (A1.25), and represented by 5¹-3-7 squads and their 2-3-7 HS, both distinguished by a square encased “2” in the upper right corner. Sturm MMC may use FT and DC as if they were Elite (A22.3; A23.2). A Sturm MMC that Battle Hardens becomes a 5-4-8/2-3-8 Elite MMC. Neither Heat of Battle nor ELR Replacement can transform a non-Sturm MMC into a Sturm MMC.

From the footnote:
"Starting in 1943, many German Army-level commands established training locations and programs to teach specialized attack tactics for some battalion-sized units intended as Army-level assets to help in strategic situations when counterattacking was necessary. The troops were generally well armed and taught to use a wide variety of specialized weapons, but by 1944 there was a limited pool from which to fill the ranks. Initially during playtest, these were represented by 5-4-8 squads, but their high morale was too powerful."

I think the 2nd line German 537 is a valuable addition to the ASL arsenal to represent certain late-war German units. I'm not sure if they are accurate for the Sturm battalions. Did they have more MP-40/44s than other units? The only Kstn I have seen of a Sturm Kompanie is from January 1943. The 'Sturm' came from the extra machine guns(2 LMGs per squads), a heavy mg platoon, a 81mm mortar section, and 2(!!) AT platoons with 3 50mm or 75mm AT guns each.
I know the Germans meant to equip 2 platoons in each company with MP-44s, and the earliest Kstn showing this is from September 1944. The 537 seem perfect for those. Of course, the official Kstn/TO&Es/War Establishments often came after new equipment and organisations had been field tested.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I'm not sure if they are accurate for the Sturm battalions. Did they have more MP-40/44s than other units?

In DZ:SME they represent units from Sturm-Bataillon AOK 7, 7. Armee. How they were equipped I have no idea. You'd have to ask the designer.

The footnote explains some:
1. SSR SM5 GERMAN STURM MMC: Starting in 1943, many German Army-level commands established training locations and programs to teach specialized attack tactics for some battalion-sized units intended as Army-level assets to help in strategic situations when counterattacking was necessary. The troops were generally well armed and taught to use a wide variety of specialized weapons, but by 1944 there was a limited pool from which to fill the ranks. Initially during playtest, these were represented by 5-4-8 squads, but their high morale was too powerful. We thought that the typical squad should have a higher-than-normal firepower but be somewhat brittle, like a 2nd Line unit. We considered using 5-4-7 squads but thought that Sturm troops should not be so significantly better than regular 2nd Line 4-4-7s, just have higher firepower, so we eventually settled on 5-3-7s. Some playtesters commented on the fact that a 5-3-7 that was Replaced by a 4-3-6 and that subsequently Battle Hardened would end up as a 4-4-7, with lower firepower but longer range. In most situations in Drop Zone: Sainte-Mère-Église, a 5-3-7 will be more valuable than a 4-4-7, a fitting penalty for failing ELR to begin with. Furthermore, we felt that the bookkeeping involved in remembering if a 4-3-6 had originally been a 5-3-7 was too cumbersome to burden players with. Nonetheless, players wishing to undertake the accounting effort may wish to Battle Harden any 4-3-6 that used to be a Sturm squad to a 5-3-7 rather than a 4-4-7 (and similarly for HS).

 

[Jwil2020]

As you point out, the term Sturm was applied to other troops as well. However, as per the SME footnote, the 5-3-7 Sturm troops are meant to represent the troops of independent Sturm Battalions, not reinforced companies to augment existing regular army units.

In the United States Army Official History (the famous "Green Books,"), the volume titled, Cross Channel Attack refers to a Seventh Army Sturm Battalion available to Rommel (Seventh Army commander) in Normandy 1944. A footnote describes this battalion thusly:

"The Sturm Battalion was an irregular Army unit for shock employment. It contained about 1,100 men in four companies armed as infantry and had four light field howitzers."

Apart from the howitzers, no other weapons are mentioned. However, it stands to reason that they would probably have been issued automatic weapons as befitting their intended use as shock troops. I am sure the SME designers were able to pin down more specific references to their TOEs during their research.

 

[FrankH.]

View attachment 26522

Seems there is a typo here. The artwork shows a 2-3-7 HS but the text indicates it as a 2-2-7.

 

[FrankH.]

These 5-3-7s cannot represent a squad fully armed with MP40s (or with similar semiautomatic weapons made in France or Italy, or the FG42, or any other captured, similar weapons). If so the firepower would be closer to that of the 8-3-8 squad, the one presumably armed with just about as much automatic weaponry as any German squad. I think the standard German squad, the 4-6-7, had one MP40, carried by the squad leader. So the 5-3-7 represents a squad with less than 10 MP40s, but more than 1.

 

[Hutch]

Seems there is a typo here. The artwork shows a 2-3-7 HS but the text indicates it as a 2-2-7.

Yes, and MMP is aware of it. 2-3-7 HS is the correct counter.

 

[Tim Niesen]

I had a discussion of the issue of the new 537 with Don 1, who assured me that the German Army in basic training taught all recruits all aspects of FTs. He asserted that the issue was that they did not trust the regular army to use the weapon. They they were concerned about the weapon being more of a danger to their troops than to the enemy troops. If one believes his argument perhaps the reduced by ELR 436s and 236s of the 537 units should be able to use FTs. Tim

 

[Zajuts149]

As you point out, the term Sturm was applied to other troops as well. However, as per the SME footnote, the 5-3-7 Sturm troops are meant to represent the troops of independent Sturm Battalions, not reinforced companies to augment existing regular army units.

In the United States Army Official History (the famous "Green Books,"), the volume titled, Cross Channel Attack refers to a Seventh Army Sturm Battalion available to Rommel (Seventh Army commander) in Normandy 1944. A footnote describes this battalion thusly:

"The Sturm Battalion was an irregular Army unit for shock employment. It contained about 1,100 men in four companies armed as infantry and had four light field howitzers."

Apart from the howitzers, no other weapons are mentioned. However, it stands to reason that they would probably have been issued automatic weapons as befitting their intended use as shock troops. I am sure the SME designers were able to pin down more specific references to their TOEs during their research.

I think the problem arise from what you define as 'automatic weapons'. Most squads represents squads that contain some form of automatic weapon, mostly in the form of a light machine gun, and sometimes single machine carbine(I prefer that term to submachine gun) used by the inherent squad leader. With squads that have multiple machine carbines, or self-loading rifles, you usually have higher FP than the basic rifle squad, and sometimes they get Assault Fire bonus. For the German Army, that would either mean multiple MP-38/40s in addition to the inherent MG-34/42, and from 1941, G-41 rifles and from 1943 G/K-43 rifles. From late '43, some units would have the MP-43/StG-44. The self-loading rifles were never, AFAIK, concentrated in such numbers at the squad level to warrant much higher FP above the norm, and the addition of the AF bonus. The FG-42 were available for some FJ squads, but also in low numbers, and not in a quantity to justify a different squad than the traditional 5-4-8 used to represent FJ squads.
The Kstn of a Sturm Kompanie from 1943 seems to be a standard set after Stalingrad for these units https://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn131g4jan43.htm
Usually, battalions would be made up of a Hq Kstn and several company Kstn's. I don't think the Sturm Kompanien is properly represented in RB/RO either. I'm happy to be corrected on this, but as I understand it, until the use of the 'Sturmgewehr', the term 'Sturm' was used to describe units that had extra firepower added by extra machine guns and heavy weapons(HMGs, MTRs, Inf Guns, AT Guns).

 

[Zajuts149]

These 5-3-7s cannot represent a squad fully armed with MP40s (or with similar semiautomatic weapons made in France or Italy, or the FG42, or any other captured, similar weapons). If so the firepower would be closer to that of the 8-3-8 squad, the one presumably armed with just about as much automatic weaponry as any German squad. I think the standard German squad, the 4-6-7, had one MP40, carried by the squad leader. So the 5-3-7 represents a squad with less than 10 MP40s, but more than 1.

The 5-3-7 can represent many things. Personally, I think they would be perfect to represent the late-war Volksgrenadier Sturm squads armed with MP-44s(Or StG-44s, if you prefer), in which 2 platoons in each company would be equipped with the "Assault Rifle" only(no inherent LMG), and the last platoon would have 3 rifle squads with an extra LMG per Squad.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Think a slightly boosted 436.
Better morale and some Sturmgewehrs and/or MP40.
The FP also represents the aggressivity deployed by the unit.
The 838 are an aberration, inherited from SL.

 

[Eagle4ty]

From many sources I have read over the years, quite a few "Sturm" groups were formed around squads possessing two MG42's because of the plethora of MGs found in Normandy, many set up primarily for anti-paratrooper/anti-air defense. This was especially true about the FJ units and units withdrawing from the beaches.

 

[Jwil2020]

I think the problem arise from what you define as 'automatic weapons'. QUOTE]

My suggestion that they could have been equipped with automatic weapons (perhaps? a high level of SMGs) was only an educated guess, but one I based on the SME footnote: "The troops were generally well armed and taught to use a wide variety of specialized weapons...," and the reference I came across in Harrison's Cross Channel Attack which indicated they were a specialized independent battalion to be used as a kind of fire brigade.

Harrison (I think) also confirms the SME FN that the German army began training to: "...teach specialized attack tactics for some battalion-sized units intended as Army-level assets to help in strategic situations when counterattacking was necessary."

As the SME FN indicates, the designers in their research determined that these troops had a little extra something going for them, whether it was firepower, special tactics, training, or a little of all three, which justified the 5 FP. I say hats off to them for trying to add more historical detail to the SME HASL.