Sigh...from ConSim

[rdw5150]

not to add fuel to the fire but....

"Gamers stuff being *done*"

Is it the fact that the Gamers stuff was already done? I find it hard to believe that all the stuff was done and sitting aroudn awaiting MMP to print.

I am certain that part of the issue is the fact that the "Gamers staff" does not have to worry about "running" the company like Brian and the rest of the elves at MMP.


"It's all self-serving in that the guys who have the RB/BV are the guys who desperately want MoO."

NO, you seem to be missing the point. It seems to me that people are pissed because of the following reasons:

1. No RB
2. No BV
3. NO AOO again this year
4. No recent ASL releases (Sorry I do not include the ASLSK, though I bought two)

So, not only is there no AOO, but the "core stuff" is out of print as well. Then we get a lot of Gamers releases flooding out 'da MMP gates.

"What does incessant complaining accomplish? Nothing"

See, I do not think that we are complaining all that much. In my humble opinion, we ASLers have been pretty patient as a whole. But even the long time supporters can only take so much dissapointment

If this was another type of buisness, what would happen then? Would we, as customers, still be around and waiting? Maybe not.

But in the end, it is a game, afterall. And we'll await MMP to release the log jam of stuff.

Yes, I agree that hiring Charlie was a great thing, but, I am VERY skeptical. Nothing has done any good thus far to release the "Jam" and I am not real hopeful at this point. I think its just a matter of just not caring all that much anymore, which I am not certain is a good or bad thing.

Peace

Roger

 

[da priest]

Alright that does it. Doesn't anyone READ the fraxing posts?

1. No where did I say get AoO out before Gamers garbage..no where. Go back and look at the posts. This is a straw man setup by Fezzi to dodge the point.

2. I too bought into the delay reasons for stalling ALL ASL production.

3. Then we find J6(easiest to complete of the "grog" products) is damn near complete, but due to these reasons stalled, fine can live with that.

4. Then we get an announcement that a Gamers release and ASLSK are going to be out in early January...the time for just print coordination, packaging, shipping and polishing could have gone to J6 and at least given the grogs one product in a year, is that asking too fraxing much!

5. And we learn that J6 should be out by WO, proves the point, the noobs and Gamers couldn't wait one month, but we can.

Gettin' real tired being told to sit in the back of the bus.

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

NO, you seem to be missing the point. It seems to me that people are pissed because of the following reasons:

1. No RB
2. No BV
3. NO AOO again this year
4. No recent ASL releases (Sorry I do not include the ASLSK, though I bought two)

I happen to like the concept of the SK, though think many will keep to it and not move on. It's quick, simple and fun. How many are going to muck it up by jumping into the scylla infested waters of ASL? Yes, I'd hope many would, but I think that'd require a helping hand form someone who has a decent handle on ASL to begin with. I don't think anyone who plays wouldn't bend over backwards to accomodate someone willing to take the leap using whatever means 'necessary'.
RB & BV OoP? Doesn't affect me personally. Yeah, yeah, I know, cavalier, but what else can you be? If someone was willing, I'd help in whatever capacity I could, including borrowing my spare copy of v2.
MoO not released...again?... Again, what can be done? Boycott? As has been mentioned, not really been a lot to boycott. *I* choose to play, when the dam breaks, we'll all sit back, punch & clip and have a big 'ol green meanie orgy. Until then?...

Ultimately <personal opinion alert> I think 'suggesting' something to a company that obviously knows the layout of the land to be kind of rude and patronising.


Having said that, I *do* understand customer frustration, I just don't see what constantly harping on and on and on accomplishes. Say it once and be done with it

 

[da priest]

[QUOTE='Ol Fezziwig].... constantly harping on and on and on accomplishes. Say it once and be done with it [/QUOTE]
Try reading my posts again, you may figure it out. Though it seems unlikely, as you are stuck in your off-topic rant and refuse to post anything but strawmen.:bored:

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

"Fezziwig", you're wrong pal. Don't tell me what I think.

I want new people to get interested in the game.

Okay, you guys are slamming me faster than I can type (which isn't too fast) I realise trying to extricate oneself out of quicksand usually only gets you in deeper, but...

As one who patently can't stand someone telling me what I think (and having taken several to task for it) please understand that was not my intent. I'm not saying I don't want or care if new guys get into ASL, I'm saying if someone approached me, I'd help as best as I could under the current situation, RB being OoP or no. Where there's a will there's a way. Guys outside my orbit, well, my ability decreases somewhat.

 

[Gen. blunder]

If the new guys don't see rulebook and BV (or ASLSK) soon, they may never buy anything. Yikes!

Right they might get other tactical games, you now 'more game less rules '

 

[Jay White]

"General Disaster" - ASL is _ALL_ game, all the time! For one game system, its AMAZING the variety of situations you can play.

I don't think you'll find a more obsessed bunch of gameplayers than ASLers. There's a reason for that. ASL rocks!

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

Alright that does it. Doesn't anyone READ the fraxing posts?

1. No where did I say get AoO out before Gamers garbage..no where. Go back and look at the posts. This is a straw man setup by Fezzi to dodge the point.


4. Then we get an announcement that a Gamers release and ASLSK are going to be out in early January...the time for just print coordination, packaging, shipping and polishing could have gone to J6 and at least given the grogs one product in a year, is that asking too fraxing much!

5. And we learn that J6 should be out by WO, proves the point, the noobs and Gamers couldn't wait one month, but we can.

Gettin' real tired being told to sit in the back of the bus.

Sheeit, keep forgetting I exasperate more folk than just my old lady

No Ron, I do get your point, but it's more in the way of a rhetorical statement, no?
I don't quite know where I implied "..get AoO out the door before Gamers.." not quite sure I found it looking back, either.
Perhaps it's just I let more roll off my back than others, working with family tends to get you used to the albatrosses hanging about your neck, I s'pose.
Of course, looking back, I guess I thought J5 came out this year, but mayhaps I am mistaken. I tend to look at the overall scheme of things and see that BtB, SP10 and other items came out as well. Perhaps it's easier to overlook the lack of dedicated material from The Source when there isn't quite a total dearth of new product. Sure, I remember the Spring '04 target, but wasn't totally surprised when Spring (both hemispheric ones at that ) came and went. Nor was I surprised when Gamers titles were released ahead of P#'ed ASL titles; I had thought it common knowledge The Gamers stuff is nearly always handed in ready to go (I could, of course, be mistaken), especially since Dean took over the chore.
Yes, the delays suck pond water, especially if you're ASL-only, but if ya gotta vent, go for it. Me, I'm building strawmen :hush:

 

[cujo8-1]

Fez,

When they SHOULD be releasing:

1) NECESSARY ASL items (RB, BV)
2) ASL products promised and "in development" since before I got old and cranky (AoO)......

The single smart thing MMP has done in the last 2-3 years is develop and release SK1. ... I'm guessing there isn't a single vet who truly resents the SK, because it's intent is a good one... more opponents! What has everyone fragged is that we're losing those possible new opponents because they can't move to ASL... it's OOP!

D

I also don't resent the SK. I am put out, however that it is about to be reprinted before the 2nd edition rulebook.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Gen. blunder]

"General Disaster" - ASL is _ALL_ game, all the time! For one game system, its AMAZING the variety of situations you can play.

I don't think you'll find a more obsessed bunch of gameplayers than ASLers. There's a reason for that. ASL rocks!

Yeah certainly but you have to have the Rule book and BV to play thats OOP while 'more game , less rules' is ready available.
Obviously i think that ASL is the best tactical game look at the maps at the scenarios , the OB's sludgefest or fast pace tournament scenario .If you want monster OB's well you can always play Red Barricades or KGP I and II .

 

[da priest]

I also don't resent the SK. I am put out, however that it is about to be reprinted before the 2nd edition rulebook.

Thanks for listening.

Thanks for getting the point, so few do.

 

[rdw5150]

Fezzi,

I in no way meant to personaly attack ya, so, if that is how ya took it, sorry about that. I thought we were having a civil dissagreement.

Peace

Roger

 

[rdw5150]

"Thanks for getting the point, so few do."

We got the point, its just that not all agree with you (though I doo 100%). That does not mean they are dumb, or do not understand your "great wisdom", they just do not agree.

Perhaps YOU should go back and read the freaking posts instead of insulting people.

Peace

Roger

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

No, not at all! I thought I was the one who may have crossed the line there. I can certainly live with civil disagreement; I'm married after all!


Just for giggles, what's supposed to be out after AoO?

 

[Countertroll]

a working peace plan in the Middle East?

 

[Wodin]

Right they might get other tactical games, you now 'more game less rules '

As a newbie trying to work out what game to get ASL is looking a poor comparison.

Yes I can see it has real devoted fans. I also believe it is a fantastic game. However there are other products which I can buy that have everything I need and look good aswell. It might be slightly inferior in certain areas but its a whole game. My money gets me a box,counters,rules and map. With ASL I can either buy a very cutdown version (this makes me dubious, I want the real thing. I also wonder how many people actually play SK caompared to the full version. Would I ever get a regular game using VASL. Exaclty how much is missing. Is it enough to take away most of the realism and how restricted in options will I be playing it) or trawl Ebay and try and buy second hand not only a rulebook but then BV or some other module.

I orderd ASLSK then on another forum Someone said some bad things about it, so I paniced and canceled my order ( I was already worried about it and then this confirmed them). In hindsight I might have been to hasty. Though the only thing stopping me from buying into another system is that ASL has far more VASSEL support which will be very important to me. IF the other system had the same support then I'd have bought into that one and not bothered with ASL. Surely this is bad for ASL in the longterm?

It was reading posts on this forum aswell as being addicted to Squad Battles that stoked up my interest in the game. However I have stated my worries and then was accused of being part of a setup. This also looks bad on the community and may put of newbies aswell.

 

[da priest]

...This also looks bad on the community and may put of newbies aswell.

Ubiquitous gentleman isn't he?:bandit:

 

[sgtono]

"Thanks for getting the point, so few do."

We got the point, its just that not all agree with you (though I doo 100%). That does not mean they are dumb, or do not understand your "great wisdom", they just do not agree.

Perhaps YOU should go back and read the freaking posts instead of insulting people.

Peace

Roger

I do not see the insult, and will lay 10 to 1 odds he reads the posts more carefully than you do or I.

Peace,

Keith

 

[Wodin]

Ron,

Here is a link to the post where I was told about ASLSK.

Once youve read it I want an apology.

http://65.108.25.241/Invision/index.php?showtopic=335&st=0

Read first post.

Aslo check forum and see Ive been asking the same questions there and have had no one giving me grief.

 

[Pitman]

THAT influenced you? An anonymous post full of errors?

Anyway, to come in here and make such an over-the-top post as you did--well, you probably deserve a little grief....