LIGHT AA.

[Tim Niesen]

We have been reading the airplane rules. Some issues are clear. Some not. What is the range of light AA? I told Don that the results were on the IFT. KIA, a kill. K, a damage. Right. Are airplanes only able to strike once each turn? Do they attack only moving units in defensive first fire? Tim

 

[Mr Incredible]

The range is twice the normal range for the weapon system, but aerial range is doubled, so in effect, the range is the printed range on the counter or 16 hexes for IFE. The FP is halved for long range fire and that will be greater than half the printed range.

Aircraft can only attack ground targets once per turn, but can then enter Aerial Combat and attack another aircraft in the CCPh. So it can attack twice, once ground, once aerial.

They can attack ground units in either your opponent's MPh or your DFPh.

 

[jrv]

The maximum range is twice the normal (printed) range for MGs. For IFE normal range is sixteen hexes, and maximum range is thirty-two hexes. Each hex of ground range counts as two hexes of aerial range, so light AA fires at full FP up to half its normal ground range and at half FP up to its normal ground range.

JR

 

[Vinnie]

The aircraft attack only once per turn (excluding Close Combat).
When they attack, they can affect non-moving units as well. Indeed, an aircraft may make a sighting TC against any unit during the Movement Phase so can start attacking on a completely different sector of the map from where you are moving.
CC for aircraft is where the RoF number comes in. If you end up in a furball, the attacker makes all of his attacks, if he gets rof, then he can continue to attack. After that, any surviving defenders may make their attacks.

 

[Tim Niesen]

I thought that an airplane strafing attack was limited to four consecutive hexes, leaving residual fire along the way. Vinnie, not sure about your depiction of firing at one moving target to attack another across the board. Tim

 

[Tim Niesen]

I assume that the shooting relationship between any AA and airplane is reciprocal. If a AA firer is in the woods and as long as the LOS is not obstructed by an Adjacent and higher woods hex, the LOS is clear.Tim

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I assume that the shooting relationship between any AA and airplane is reciprocal. If a AA firer is in the woods and as long as the LOS is not obstructed by an Adjacent and higher woods hex, the LOS is clear.Tim

Correct.

E7.25:
"...All Aerial units are considered to be at sufficient elevation to reduce the number of Blind Hexes created by any full-level-or-higher LOS Obstacle to one hex, and to reduce any non-cliff Crest Line Blind hexes to zero if there is ≤ 1 level elevation difference (see B10.23), and to see INTO any Depression barring other LOS obstacles..."

 

[Tim Niesen]

Vinnie, After rereading your observation and engaging in phone and text tag with Don, I think I understand. You sight a moving unit, you then jump across the board? Tim

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Vinnie, After rereading your observation and engaging in phone and text tag with Don, I think I understand. You sight a moving unit, you then jump across the board? Tim

No, you have to sight a unit you attack - and that unit does not need to a moving unit.

E.g., you move a squad on your left flank. When it is done moving, I decide to make a strafing run vs some of your units over on your right flank. What Vinnie is trying to say (I think) is that an aircraft attack (unlike other types of defensive first fire) is not dependent on an enemy unit moving during the MPh. It can even make its attack before any unit starts to move, IIRC.

 

[DonHalsey44]

Hi Guys: Could you point me to the exact section of the rules that covers AA fire vs. aircraft? Since it's been a while.... I presumed that an aircraft could strafe four contiguous hexes (alone the same hex row) and also bomb one of them - if it was a FB? And reading some of the new posts - just confirming - AA fire is on the 'to hit, to kill' tables? Unless it's a MG

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Should be in E7.25..something...

 

[DonHalsey44]

Another question: Is a 20L AA gun (5/8 counter)....a light of a heavy AA gun? Presuming that mmg, and hmg's are light and fire in the IFT?

 

[jrv]

Another question: Is a 20L AA gun (5/8 counter)....a light of a heavy AA gun? Presuming that mmg, and hmg's are light and fire in the IFT?

Any AA Gun with IFE is light AA (as are MGs). Any AA weapon without IFE is heavy AA. See E7.51 & E7.52.

JR

 

[jrv]

Should be in E7.25..something...

E7.511.

JR

 

[DonHalsey44]

Thanks!

 

[Tim Niesen]

The light AA rules are a total exaggeration of the effectiveness of machine guns against airplanes in WW2. First, you have the Soviet HMG on a cart, which cannot elevate to shot into the sky. (We admit that there was a variation which could elevate, but there were only about 2,000 made, a small fraction of the hundreds of thousands of Soviet HMG.) Only by an SSR should they be available. Then you have the very succesful German 20L gun, which had sights and a type of range finder, which did in fact shot down numerous airplanes, rated to fire as a four in light AA. Don related to me that there were thousands of 50 cal HMG on vehicles in the American Army, but they were quite ineffective. They had a 20 round drum, which they emptied very quickly. They were useful for morale purposes, but few shot down airplanes! Don Deibler in the early 1970 had hundreds of WW2 veterans in his medical practice. He always interviewed them about their combat experiences. Many of whom were ex-German POWs. They were attracted here to Lancaster County because of abundant jobs and the large German population. None of them ever saw a HMG shot down an enemy aircraft! Tim

 

[Mister T]

It is hard for a single MG to shot down a FB in 44 due to the increased armor of the generic '44 FB counter.

However if MGs are twinned or if four MGs are grouped, like the Soviet IAG truck or the US meat-chopper Ht, they become a real threat for airplanes, and probably for a good reason.

 

[Mr Incredible]

Normal MG don't get ROF when firing at aircraft, can't use leadership and can still cower, so that diminishes their effectiveness somewhat.

A 50 cal HMG needs a 3 or less to kill a 44FB outright or a 4 to damage it.

Those odds seems right and not a certain result.

 

[Brian W]

The point about the 20L is spot on, though. A 20mm weapon is simply far superior than a MG against any aircraft, yet the .50cal SW HMG is superior in ASL. The same 44FB that is pretty safe against the .50cal HMG is safe unless an original DR2 is made when fired at by the German 20L(4).

 

[Tim Niesen]

Odds, like beauty, are in the eyes of the beholder. A one in twelve chance of a kill seems high to me, for something that so very rarely happened. Perhaps his hundreds of eyewitness reports are not enough of a sample. A tank is easy to hit, a plane not so much. Tim