Is DYO popular?

[Will Fleming]

Hehe, I figured it was something UK'ish and actually have heard that expression. I guess over there you have to be more specific....tossed out instead of tossed?

Strange language you guys made. Anyway, you heard anything from Phil Petry? I keep hoping he starts playing again.

 

[RobZagnut]

Never played DYO. Never will.

Why?

1) I'm more interested in the historical aspect. I like looking at available units, reading the aftermath, checking for unique SSRs, etc.

2) I like something physical I can hold in my hand. The scenario card.

3) Random boards, random Victory Conditions and out guessing my opponent has no appeal.

4) No shared experience with other players who have played the same scenario. "No WAY! That scenario is balanced and here is why!!!!"

 

[WaterRabbit]

Never played DYO. Never will.

Why?

1) I'm more interested in the historical aspect. I like looking at available units, reading the aftermath, checking for unique SSRs, etc.

2) I like something physical I can hold in my hand. The scenario card.

3) Random boards, random Victory Conditions and out guessing my opponent has no appeal.

4) No shared experience with other players who have played the same scenario. "No WAY! That scenario is balanced and here is why!!!!"

DYO is what you choose it to be. If you choose it not be the above then it will be. However, if you choose it to be the genesis of a scenario, it is all of the above.

 

[Treadhead]

I tried DYO early on. For the most part I found the purchasing process to be tiresome. Perhaps I had a low patience level back then.

Also, there weren't too many boards available at the time. Not to mention the difficulty of victory conditions. Etc.

I really enjoyed the Schmittgens/Kibler article (General V24 N1), and thought it really put a structure on the process. The unit purchasing remained the same, however, so that part was still tiresome.

I guess it fizzled out for me because my time was better spent playing scenarios, so I figured.

However, I am still intrigued by the concept of DYO, but perhaps a modified version. It would be a combination of: the "DYO My Way" article, incorporating historical modifiers based on theater and date and perhaps expanding on "historical" victory conditions appropriate for time and place; plus some of the elements of SASL concepts, perhaps random unit generation, random map generation, and possibly also modified by "historical" factors; plus features of the well-developed CG concept, in particular by purchasing formations rather than individual units, with appropriate historical tables as in SASL.

Alas.

This kind of concept has been on my ASL to-do list for quite some time. In my notes and ideas, the concept is fairly well developed. But... real life and all that.

Perhaps one day. I would greatly enjoy a DYO system that allowed me to approximate any particular operation. I find my enjoyment in playing the game per se, and so the DYO aspect would also add a tension that is not found in a structured scenario.

Might even create a gem!


Regards,
Bruce Bakken

 

[WaterRabbit]

This has been done -- it's called Platoon Based Desion Your Own. It is part of the Tactiques internet downloads. They have essentially taken the AH CG system and modified it to work with DYO. It works well. The main issues is that it hasn't been extended since they published it.

 

[trevpr1]

Strange language you guys made. Anyway, you heard anything from Phil Petry? I keep hoping he starts playing again.

No, never have. Funny how keen he seemed on the whole ASL experience that time I played him at Hill 621 at ASSLOK. Then he gave up..? Another victim of Magic the Gathering perhaps...

 

[Will Fleming]

I think life got him. He wanted to workout/hike more and I have no problems with that. I figure he will return someday.

He smacked me pretty good in Hill 621.

 

[Pitman]

There are 3,000+ published ASL scenarios out there, most of them playtested, many of them well-playtested, lots of them good and some of them very good.

I haven't yet figured out why I should prefer an undesigned, unplaytested, open-to-gamey-abuse and incidentally ahistorical DYO scenario instead of one of those others.

 

[Portal]

Pitman,

Of all those 3000+ scenarios, what percentage actually provides 100% Fog of War with respect to your opponent's OB?

That fun-factor alone is worth giving DYO a try with a reasonable opponent who is more focused on enjoyable play than competitiveness.

 

[A/CSM Bird]

Scenario vs DYO. Both arguments are valid. The exercise that your ASL brain muscles get is the same. I enjoy both and that's what it's all about anyway. If Fog of War is what you seek DYO offers an outlet. That is my primary motivation for DYO. There is no aspect of ASL in it's present form that I will shy away from, never say never to ASL.

I have had many years of memorable SL and ASL. Scenarios, Tournaments, DYO, Blind, CGs, home grown, store bought all hold fascination for me.:nuts:


I seek that which feels more like what it means to be a commander of soldiers faced with the challenges of battle within the confines of the system. Anything that furthers that ideal I will embrace. What could be more enjoyable than to achieve victory over an opponent against long odds, to wield a seemingly inferior force with such skill that you dominate a foe in a hard fought battle to the death. If the OB is not known as it is with a scenario card and can only be guessed at a la the latest intel from G2, GRU or Fremde Heer Ost, then you are thrust into a situation that does not have the ready assurance of knowing exactly what you are facing, where it is, where it is coming from and how. You have to be more flexible and reactive than might be the case with a scenario.

Suddenly faced with 10 T-34s and a battery of 45L ATGs with Russian combat engineers and only a handful of PzIIIf and Cz38T and Inf support to counter them what do you do? If the scenario card was laid out before you would denounce it as an unbalanced howler and dismiss it out of hand, but thrust into this situation you fire up all the skill you can and fight!:bite:

Mike and I had this as the central battle in our Barbarossa DYO, we called it the "Dance of Death". I will remember this battle always. It summoned all our ASL skills for 5 turns of intense combat over two Sunday mornings before the end.

DYO? Why not?! It's ASL.

 

[trevpr1]

There are 3,000+ published ASL scenarios out there, most of them playtested, many of them well-playtested, lots of them good and some of them very good.

I haven't yet figured out why I should prefer an undesigned, unplaytested, open-to-gamey-abuse and incidentally ahistorical DYO scenario instead of one of those others.

Its not a 'scenario' at all. That's the point. Its a gaming experience. Unless yu have an opponent who sticks to the same OB style all the time, it should never play the same twice.

If I have a criticism of the scenario based system of ASL it is that feeling of being funnelled into a game situation which is programmed to play a certain way. Given OB, VC and forces available there’ll often be a sure fire way to approach the set up in defence or, conversely, execute the attack. Meeting engagement scenarios, where both sides enter, are one of the exceptions.

The one time I played DYO we had that plus the complete uncertainty of the enemy OB. Was a lot of fun.

 

[Will Fleming]

Yup, why play CG's when there are so many scenarios? I play CG for a change of pace and increase of intensity. For others, DYO offers a different experience. You could easily make a DYO CG too. That said, I didn't really care for DYO that much, but you should probably try it before dismissing it.

 

[WaterRabbit]

My first 4-6 tournament experiences were all DYO. Each round had certain guidelines that everyone followed and they were set by the TD. They were the best tournaments I have ever played in to be quite honest.

I think I have finally figured out how playing style might have changed over the years. I'll post that in the other thread.

 

[soggycrow]

:cheeky: It's a seeming contradiction. People won't touch a fictional scenario (i.e. DYO). Yet the same people are contemptuous of discussions of reality in game play.