Is DYO popular?

[Javaslinger]

I remember back in the day, in my first ASL coming of age, my buddy and I used to play a lot of DYO quick battles. We enjoyed being able to pick our own forces and try to outsmart each other in our force mixes.

Often they didn't turn out too balanced, but that was part of the challenge, picking a balanced force or perhaps, going one sided to get the edge.

In any case, I don't see much mention of DYO here. Is it a dying breed or has it just never been popular much like solitaire ASL?

Thanks,

Javaslinger

 

[Portal]

Contact Bill Bird from Winnipeg who uses this forum. He is doing a lot of DYO actions with local Winnipeg players and has access to some great utility software to help with DYO designs.

 

[alanp]

Javaslinger, your memory is mine as well. Two possible reasons come to mind: there were fewer published scenario back then and teen-agers naturally do that sort of thing.

Balance may be more important these days, too, I don't know. It is the goal of every commander to make an engagement as unbalanced as possible and DYO does a much better job of that; or at least leaves that possibility open.

DYO may take longer, too. (you've got to come up with an OB before you can play) so that may be a third (fourth?) reason.

 

[Jazz]

Javaslinger, your memory is mine as well. Two possible reasons come to mind: there were fewer published scenario back then and teen-agers naturally do that sort of thing.

Balance may be more important these days, too, I don't know. It is the goal of every commander to make an engagement as unbalanced as possible and DYO does a much better job of that; or at least leaves that possibility open.

DYO may take longer, too. (you've got to come up with an OB before you can play) so that may be a third (fourth?) reason.

We used to do some DYO in SL days. Both players would jointly put together one force and then both would go off and put together a force to fight it with...the lowest BPV force got to give it a shot.

I think one of the main reasons it is not discussed much is that every DYO scenario is an experience that you can have or share with only one other person, your opponent. Published scenarios give us a number of common frames of reference to talk about.

As I recall, out-foxing your opponent and his choices so that it was unbalanced in your favor was the objective?

You comments regarding time are more and more pertinent as life goes on. I and my opponents just don't have the time to give to a DYO scenario...at least not the way we'd like to do it.

 

[dude163]

DYO would be cool if you set aside a point value beforehand

ie say 150 points for the sake of argument, and the person with the lowest BPV total picks the map and goes first

so one person has 150, the other might build 145 knowing they can pick the situation for the conflict.

sort of ASL deathmatch! :laugh:

 

[Nikon53]

Ever since the begining of SL I thought DYO would be the ultimate deal. But it just never happened. I'd say mostly just because it takes time to organize.

So, with that in mind I designed a DYO generator for tourney play and called it Squad Bleeder (I just crack me up!). Squad Bleeder, and later on Advanced Squad Bleeder (or Son of Squad Bleeder) maintained some of the DYO aspects for the players, but shortened things up a lot by giving them "packages" of choices to select. Board arrangement was randomized, as were other aspects.

The result? Well, it seemed to be working fairly well after getting some bugs sorted out of it, but, in the end, it did still remain a real time consuming thing to run - only not so much for the individuals as for the poor lame idiot running the thing (er, that would be me). Maybe worthwhile and maybe not, but I still believe it, or something similar, could be a very fun thing.

 

[jpellam]

Dying breed maybe?

It use to be fun when I was a teenager and just wanted to use all the cool stuff like tiger tanks and FT tanks etc. But now I would rather play a scenario where other people have played it and strategies compared.

I know I have not played any DYO since the 80's.

 

[McFinn]

My experinces are similar to alanp, Jazz & jpellam.

Lots of DYO as a teenager, none recently, although there has been talk of trying at our club.

It was a ton of fun.

 

[Faded 8-1]

Is DYO popular?

No. No it isn't.

 

[alanp]

Just thought of this, too: CGs give you the pleasure of buying your forces but it's all within a certain framework which is more or less balanced and it's even more engaging on the historical level.

Maybe DYOers are now CGers.

 

[Will Fleming]

I only played a few times and it seemed to be a bit unbalanced. One side would outguess the other one and make the right purchases. As Alan mentioned, I usually think of a CG as a better option.

There was a published guide to DYO a while back. Greg Schmittgens and Charles Kibler wrote it. It covers ASL up to map 32 but not the desert, whatever that era was. I made a copy for my rulebook, but long since tossed my Generals.

 

[trevpr1]

...but long since tossed my Generals.

Your private life (and theirs) is no concern of ours.

 

[Honza]

Still like the idea of DYO within the context of a ahistorical battle. For example putting together forces/maps for battles that have not been covered by published scenarios. 'Operation Spring Awakening' is a battle which I'm very interested in, but there is very little published stuff on it. So after a bit of reading I might throw together an attacking & defending force based on (semi) historical facts and play the battle out.
Its a bit like designing your own scenario but the intention is for fun only not to have it published.

 

[Will Fleming]

Your private life (and theirs) is no concern of ours.

??????????

 

[L'Emperor]

I have never played a DYO and seriously doubt I ever will.

 

[Psycho]

Your private life (and theirs) is no concern of ours.

Very nice! Beat me to it... you know what I mean. :laugh:

??????????

Pretend I typed it and I think you'll catch it. :devious:

 

[Portal]

Seriously, guys, get in touch with Bill Bird if you're interested in giving DYO an honest shot. He has the same time management challenges as everyone else, and he and the guys he plays have tackled the potential balance problems and have overcome.

There are real players in the real world who are making DYO work.

 

[A/CSM Bird]

I am currently playing DYO with Mike the Younger and Jack Dionne from the WASLC. We have been meeting semi regularly to tackle every theatre of WWII in med-sized , point-wise, DYO matches. The further we got into it the better we have become at organizing and setting up DYO, it's all a matter of practice.

We have listed all the various actions we want to play out. So far Mike and I have done a Barbarossa, France '40 and a desert DYO. With Jack I played out a Kahlkin Gol and a Early '45 U.S./Ger DYO. Point totals are usually under 3000 and are in a 3/2 ratio with 1.2 RF with the option to buy .1 increases in RF as per Chapt. H

Boards and overlays we choose on the basis of research, Google Earth is your friend here, with various on-line resources such as the excellent Combined Arms Research Library, and letting the creative juices flow. For instance for the desert scenario we toured Libya with Google Earth and that made the orientation of Wadi's and Dunes accurate for our chosen terrain. We use as many boards as my 4 x 6 ft table will hold and go nuts with the overlays finally covering it all with plexiglas.

There is a DYO program Jack Dionne found for me called ASL DYO Assistant 3.0
It's available for DL IIRC. VASL can also be helpful for the defender to print out all the HIP units and fortifications.

VC's are the most difficult and the easiest. Slugfests are fine, those are easy. The more complex ones ie. exit VPs, terrain objectives, CVP caps etc are more difficult to work out, but if you arrange it so each side has conflicting objectives such that they are bound to bring each force into contact it is not too difficult to ensure a satisfactory battle.

Advantages:

Fog of War. Points, rarity factor and scenario date will allow some insight into your opponents OB but you will not know exactly what he has until it is in LOS. I love this.

Open flanks. With large board areas and relatively small forces, flank protection becomes much more important. Board edge creepers still occur from time to time but are not as prevalent as regular scenarios.

One DYO, many scenarios. Mike and I saw this in our France 1940 scenario. We had six small scenarios within our DYO. Hill battles, breakthroughs, counter-attacks, Tank vs Inf fights, a river crossing, all going on at the same time with long range ATG and MTR fire over all the map not to mention the OBA's. It was great!

Disadvantages:

Balance. I don't think this can ever be counted on. It can be achieved but not assured despite your best intentions and efforts. C'est La Guerre.

Ties up your game space and takes a long time to play. I have the luxury of a dedicated space to let the game stay set up. You may not be so fortunate. Overlays take a beating too if your sticky stuff stays on too long as well.


We have had a blast playing DYO

 

[Honza]

Sounds really fun Bill!

 

[trevpr1]

??????????

Sorry Will,'Tossing Off' is a UK euphamism for, ah... self pleasuring. Obviously not over there in the colonies.



I tried this once (DYO not tossing off), best part of 20 years ago, when the only modules we had were Paratrooper and BV. We set up a three board layout. Board 3 was laid lengthwise between the players and the game would be won by the player who gained the most buildings in the centre of that village. Then each player chose the (non river) board that would be placed on the opponent’s side of the boards. So I might place Board 5 in your way (we had two sets so no unfairness).

We decided on a period (I think we chose the summer of ’42,) and a low RF. Then we took an OB of so many points limiting ourselves to a maximum percentage of points that could be spent on armoured vehicles. I can’t recall how many points we had or how many turns we chose. I think the first player to move entered with half MP and MF expended.

I was the Germans and found the 2nd line troops were excellent value in the close range fight (you get 30% more squads if you buy them instead of 1st line and all the leadership and SW’s that come with them). I had a couple of Pz III with 50L guns and I think my opponent came with some late T26. I can remember a really intense fight for the village centre with a human wave coming in at me and would call the exercise a success.