How to become better at bridge and river crossings in ASL

Actionjick

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Cpl. Uhl mentioned in the " what scenario have you played lately " thread that he wasn't good at bridge crossings. JoeArtuhur recommended he play Belgian Tigers. This seemed like a good time to start another " how to get better " thread so what advice would you give to Cpl. Uhl?

Experiences of bridge and river crossings as well as tips and advice are quite welcome and encouraged. Thanks!

Btw I find it ironic that JoeArthur was one of the catalysts for the " how to get better at using AFVs " thread.🤔😉
 

von Marwitz

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You have to understand how SMOKE operates with regard to Water Obstacles and Bridges.

This can be tricky business including some 'ASL Physics'.

It seems that, for a Bridge over a Water Obstacle [B21, B20.44 and/or B20.7] that
  • A squad may place Infantry Smoke Grenades on the Bridge (i.e. the Bridge Location) - but not on a Foot Bridge [A24.1].
  • An armed Vehicle in a Bridge Location may place Vehicular Smoke Grenades on the Bridge (i.e. the Bridge Location) since VSG are placed in the vehicle's Location [D13.35].
  • OBA SMOKE may not be placed on a Water Obstacle but on Bridge Locations [C1.71].
  • Ordnance SMOKE may not be placed on a Bridge over a Water Obstacle, since Ordnance Smoke is placed at the base level of the hex when hit by ATT [C8.52].
  • And now the interesting one in the world of 'ASL Physics': Although Vehicular Smoke Grenades can be placed on a bridge over a Water Obstacle, it would appear that this is not the case for the Vehicular Smoke Dispensers (sD, sM, sP and sN; D13.31-13.34). These four types of Smoke dispensers all place the Smoke at the Base level of the hex.
  • I am not sure about Pontoon Bridges (B6.41), but I would treat them as Bridges. This would leave a questionable case of Underwater Pontoon Bridges (B6.45). By common sense, I would not allow any Smoke on such.
von Marwitz
 

Actionjick

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You have to understand how SMOKE operates with regard to Water Obstacles and Bridges.

This can be tricky business including some 'ASL Physics'.

It seems that, for a Bridge over a Water Obstacle [B21, B20.44 and/or B20.7] that
  • A squad may place Infantry Smoke Grenades on the Bridge (i.e. the Bridge Location) - but not on a Foot Bridge [A24.1].
  • An armed Vehicle in a Bridge Location may place Vehicular Smoke Grenades on the Bridge (i.e. the Bridge Location) since VSG are placed in the vehicle's Location [D13.35].
  • OBA SMOKE may not be placed on a Water Obstacle but on Bridge Locations [C1.71].
  • Ordnance SMOKE may not be placed on a Bridge over a Water Obstacle, since Ordnance Smoke is placed at the base level of the hex when hit by ATT [C8.52].
  • And now the interesting one in the world of 'ASL Physics': Although Vehicular Smoke Grenades can be placed on a bridge over a Water Obstacle, it would appear that this is not the case for the Vehicular Smoke Dispensers (sD, sM, sP and sN; D13.31-13.34). These four types of Smoke dispensers all place the Smoke at the Base level of the hex.
  • I am not sure about Pontoon Bridges (B6.41), but I would treat them as Bridges. This would leave a questionable case of Underwater Pontoon Bridges (B6.45). By common sense, I would not allow any Smoke on such.
von Marwitz
Thanks! I knew Smoke would be a key component to these crossings. Nice points. 🤗
 

bendizoid

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Didn’t there used to be a extra -1 for attacking infantry on a bridge ?
 

Actionjick

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Didn’t there used to be a extra -1 for attacking infantry on a bridge ?
Checked SL and COD QRDC and didn't see one. This rings a bell but might be confusing it with HA.
 

bendizoid

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Checked SL and COD QRDC and didn't see one. This rings a bell but might be confusing it with HA.
It’s right there on the green terrain card under TEM, says “LOS: -1*/+1.” Then in the notes column says “If LOS is thru road depiction;”
 

Robin Reeve

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Didn’t there used to be a extra -1 for attacking infantry on a bridge ?
It was suggested by MMP a short time - in accordance with the Terrain Chart which indicated that DRM without relating it to Open Ground - but the angry outcry of some vocal GS forum members led MMP to annulate that ruling.
 

Actionjick

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It’s right there on the green terrain card under TEM, says “LOS: -1*/+1.” Then in the notes column says “If LOS is thru road depiction;”
Was only checking the IFT chart. Duh! Old people!?!
 

Actionjick

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It was suggested by MMP a short time - in accordance with the Terrain Chart which indicated that DRM without relating it to Open Ground - but the angry outcry of some vocal GS forum members led MMP to annulate that ruling.
Ok what is the modifier for fire against:

A) Infantry on a bridge and LOF crosses the bridge depiction.

B) Infantry on a bridge and LOF does not cross the bridge depiction.


Was MMP's proposal and forum outcry on a thread that you can recall?

Thanks!
 

The Purist

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.... <snip>...
  • And now the interesting one in the world of 'ASL Physics': Although Vehicular Smoke Grenades can be placed on a bridge over a Water Obstacle, it would appear that this is not the case for the Vehicular Smoke Dispensers (sD, sM, sP and sN; D13.31-13.34). These four types of Smoke dispensers all place the Smoke at the Base level of the hex.
  • I am not sure about Pontoon Bridges (B6.41), but I would treat them as Bridges. This would leave a questionable case of Underwater Pontoon Bridges (B6.45). By common sense, I would not allow any Smoke on such.
However, unlike Bridges, Pontoon Bridges (B6.41) are at the same level as the water (either -1 or 0) so an sD/sM/sN/sP could place Smoke at the base level of the hex, which is ON the bridge. Note that pontoon bridges also block Boats, Assault Boats (E5.3)and Amphibians (D16) from entering or drifting into the hex, in effect turning the Location from Water to a Bridge and removing the Depression if flooded.

Likewise, a bridge over a flooded river, stream or pond (now level 0) is also at the base level of the hex, thereby allowing the use of sD/sM/sN/sP to place Smoke at the base level of the hex. Note again, Boats, Assault Boats and Amphibians may not enter/drift into (ie: under) a bridge Location of a flooded water obstacle (B21.21).
 
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von Marwitz

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However, unlike Bridges, Pontoon Bridges (B6.41) are at the same level as the water (either -1 or 0) so an sD/sM/sN/sP could place Smoke at the base level of the hex, which is ON the bridge.
Likewise, a bridge over a flooded river, stream or pond (now level 0) is also at the base level of the hex, also allows the use of sD/sM/sN/sP to place Smoke at the base level of the hex.
These are excellent points!

von Marwitz
 

Robin Reeve

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Ok what is the modifier for fire against:

A) Infantry on a bridge and LOF crosses the bridge depiction.

B) Infantry on a bridge and LOF does not cross the bridge depiction.


Was MMP's proposal and forum outcry on a thread that you can recall?

Thanks!
It was a debate about a decade ago.
The DRM was to be added to FFMO/FFNAM.
The only case I recall, when Perry had to undo an official.rules clarification.
 

bendizoid

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It was suggested by MMP a short time - in accordance with the Terrain Chart which indicated that DRM without relating it to Open Ground - but the angry outcry of some vocal GS forum members led MMP to annulate that ruling.
Those guys are wusses, I like the -1 bridge rule, it’s a constriction point that limits your deployment and maneuverability, bullets and scrapnel bouncing off everything, wtf. It is weird though when a negavitve -1 TEM increases the residual by a column.
 
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bendizoid

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Those guys are wusses, I like the -1 bridge rule, it’s a constriction point that limits your deployment and maneuverability, bullets and scrapnel bouncing off everything, wtf. It is weird though when a negavitve -1 TEM increases the residual by a column.
Sorry about the misspelled redundant “negative -1”, I meant simply “ - 1”. And I find it fitting that ”negative increase “ is oxymoron in my book. My bad.
 

Robin Reeve

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I was favorable to the additional -1 DRM for the same reasons as yours.
 

STAVKA

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It was suggested by MMP a short time - in accordance with the Terrain Chart which indicated that DRM without relating it to Open Ground - but the angry outcry of some vocal GS forum members led MMP to annulate that ruling.
Provide us with the thread of an "angry outcry".

You cannot since you just make up stuff - lying or perhaps your memory is mixed with your fantasy thinking.

What became clear was that a great majority had never played with the
"-1 DRM" and would forever ignore the "errata/ clarification" and if it was such a obvious "-1 DRM to apply" then why did MMP felt the need to mention it, because they know most thought of it as FFMO and not as an Air Strip/ Boulevard terrain as suggested by MMP.

Best Bridge scenarios:
  • One Eye to the West
  • An Estonian Interlude
Every bridge crossed in Stalingrad.
 

bendizoid

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Provide us with the thread of an "angry outcry".

You cannot since you just make up stuff - lying or perhaps your memory is mixed with your fantasy thinking.

What became clear was that a great majority had never played with the
"-1 DRM" and would forever ignore the "errata/ clarification" and if it was such a obvious "-1 DRM to apply" then why did MMP felt the need to mention it, because they know most thought of it as FFMO and not as an Air Strip/ Boulevard terrain as suggested by MMP.

Best Bridge scenarios:
  • One Eye to the West
  • An Estonian Interlude
Every bridge crossed in Stalingrad.
What do you think would be best Melvin, should bridges be -1 like the chart says ?
 
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