How to become better at bridge and river crossings in ASL

[STAVKA]

What do you think would be best Melvin, should bridges be -1 like the chart says ?

No, unless it is a wellcrafted type of Boulevard bridge (Arnhem bridge),
or do you think a boulevard bridge should be -2 like the chart says?

 

[bendizoid]

No, unless it is a wellcrafted type of Boulevard bridge (Arnhem bridge),
or do you think a boulevard bridge should be -2 like the chart says?

Never heard of a boulevard bridge in any scenario, but sure, if the some designer thought some special bridge was a boulevard then give it a crazy -2.

 

[STAVKA]

Never heard of a boulevard bridge in any scenario, but sure, if the some designer thought some special bridge was a boulevard then give it a crazy -2.

20 hex Arnhem bridge construction,

https://www.aslscenarioarchive.com/uploads/47.2009/Bridge_too_Far.jpg

we have played nearly 100 scenarios around that boulevard bridge.

Now ask yourself, who have ever applied your crazy -2 DRM to foot soldiers during play, our guess is none at all.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Here is the link to the 28 (!) page debate about the -1 Bridge TEM which occurred in 2006 : Bridge TEM debate

This was the sequence :

• MMP (represented by Perry) interpreted the -1 TEM first as linked to open ground, then as an additional TEM.
• people complained (what I called an outcry - and Mark Pitcavage expressed himself among others against that ruling)
• MMP reverted to the open ground status.

So I was not lying and my memory didn't fail me.

 

[STAVKA]

Here is the link to the 28 (!) page debate about the -1 Bridge TEM which occurred in 2006 : Bridge TEM debate

This was the sequence :

• MMP (represented by Perry) interpreted the -1 TEM first as linked to open ground, then as an additional TEM.
• people complained (what I called an outcry - and Mark Pitcavage expressed himself among others against that ruling)
• MMP reverted to the open ground status.

So I was not lying and my memory didn't fail me.

The bridge counters printed 1985-86 suggested that MMP had bad Intel when printing their change. That is probably why they realized their mistake. Still it was no "angry outcry" just reasonable objections.

A poll suggested that nearly 90% would ignore the "errata".

 

[Robin Reeve]

The problem was with the Terrain Chart, which listed a -1 TEM without linking it to OG.
Some of the posters of the linked thread were quite irritated about the ruling in J7.
The fact is that those protests led MMP to change the ruling.

 

[Actionjick]

Here is the link to the 28 (!) page debate about the -1 Bridge TEM which occurred in 2006 : Bridge TEM debate

This was the sequence :

• MMP (represented by Perry) interpreted the -1 TEM first as linked to open ground, then as an additional TEM.
• people complained (what I called an outcry - and Mark Pitcavage expressed himself among others against that ruling)
• MMP reverted to the open ground status.

So I was not lying and my memory didn't fail me.

Thanks for finding that. Should make some interesting reading.

 

[Actionjick]

It would also be welcome and instructive to see how to defend against bridge and river crossings.

 

[Actionjick]

Never heard of a boulevard bridge in any scenario, but sure, if the some designer thought some special bridge was a boulevard then give it a crazy -2.

Personally it seems to me that a bridge crossing under fire is a near suicidal endeavor. Much more hazardous than crossing a runway or boulevard IMO due to the funneling effect of the bridge. Given the choice I would try crossing in a boat.

 

[JoeArthur]

And now the interesting one in the world of 'ASL Physics': Although Vehicular Smoke Grenades can be placed on a bridge over a Water Obstacle, it would appear that this is not the case for the Vehicular Smoke Dispensers (sD, sM, sP and sN; D13.31-13.34). These four types of Smoke dispensers all place the Smoke at the Base level of the hex.

Von Martwitz - thank you. I have learnt another rule. Only took me 30 years

 

[Actionjick]

Von Martwitz - thank you. I have learnt another rule. Only took me 30 years

That by itself justifies this thread!

 

[Actionjick]

Personally it seems to me that a bridge crossing under fire is a near suicidal endeavor. Much more hazardous than crossing a runway or boulevard IMO due to the funneling effect of the bridge. Given the choice I would try crossing in a boat.

After consulting with Colonel Cuervo and General Bacardi we still opt for the boat crossing. Captain Bacchus says he'll never give up the bridge.

 

[Actionjick]

Are there any scenarios where the bridge has been wired for demolition?

 

[buser333]

Are there any scenarios where the bridge has been wired for demolition?

I'm sure there are, though I can't think of any off the top of my head.
I know the following scenarios involve common tactics of blowing up bridges, either with set DCs or Goliaths:

AP124 - Lunch in Luga
ASL135 - Acts of Defiance

 

[Actionjick]

I'm sure there are, though I can't think of any off the top of my head.
I know the following scenarios involve common tactics of blowing up bridges, either with set DCs or Goliaths:

AP124 - Lunch in Luga
ASL135 - Acts of Defiance

Thanks! Acts of Defiance sounds familiar but not Lunch in Luga.

 

[buser333]

Thanks! Acts of Defiance sounds familiar but not Lunch in Luga.

Acts of Defiance has been around the block a few times in various iterations and is generally regarded as a classic.
Lunch in Luga is relatively new to the ASL world (Action Pack 13 - 2017).

 

[von Marwitz]

Personally it seems to me that a bridge crossing under fire is a near suicidal endeavor. Much more hazardous than crossing a runway or boulevard IMO due to the funneling effect of the bridge. Given the choice I would try crossing in a boat.

But Boats/Rafts are usually not an option offered in ASL, so across the Bridge you must go.

Creating any kind of cover is the key. We have treated Smoke further upthread.

There are - at minimum - three hexes of importance in Bridge crossings:

First, the hex you must pass for moving onto the Bridge, second the Bridge hex itself, third the hex you must pass for exiting the Bridge.

Looking at the Bridge hex(es) first, these are - naturally - calling for Fire Lanes, that won't be much affected by SMOKE besides cancelling the -1 FFMO DRM. Especially crossing longer Bridges vs. a Fire Lane is extremely dangerous and SMOKE alone - unless barring LOS and thus enemy fire completely - might not be enough.

To address this, you can suppress the hex from where the Fire Lane originates during Prep Fire. If you can put down a full strength SMOKE in that Location this is a good start. Anything but a Fire Lane will now be severely impeded by a +4 DRM for firing out of SMOKE. Next, you can drive across an AFV and try to pop a sD, sP, sM or even Vehicular Smoke Grenade on the enemy side and stop. While this might trigger a FL to be laid in the current turn, at least from the upcoming Rout Phase that Vehicle will count as a Hindrance or might have even been turned into a (Burning) Wreck creating cover for your units scheduled to cross in your next turn onwards.

In your next turn, Infantry can follow up using Armored Assault (if appropriate AFV are available). So with the FL hex smoked, a hindrance created by one of your vehicles in the first turn and Armored Assault in your second, moving across into a FL has become much less dangerous and the original -1 FFMO, -1FFNAM hast lost its edge.

Oftentimes, the 'entry' and 'exit' hex of a Bridge are of greater concern, though. Of these, the 'exit' hex yet more than the 'entry' hex. In many cases, these hexes are Open Ground, i.e. they lack the TEM that fire vs. the Bridge Locations not along the road across it does enjoy. Units broken in the 'exit' hex on the enemy side of the bridge might be forced to rout back across it, losing time and having to start the most dangerous part of their journey again after rallying. Especially if 'entry' and 'exit' hexes are Open Ground, they can be much more vulnerable to enemy Defensive Fire compared to that exactly along the Bridge. The fire especially to the 'exit' hex might originate from a Location that is out of LOS from the friendly side of the Bridge, making it much harder if not impossible to suppress. In general, chances to harm the 'entry' and especially the 'exit' hex of a Bridge without beneficial TEM to the Attacker are often greater than along the Bridge. Thus, the Defender will likely attempt to infest these with RFP.

von Marwitz

 

[Actionjick]

But Boats/Rafts are usually not an option offered in ASL, so across the Bridge you must go.

Creating any kind of cover is the key. We have treated Smoke further upthread.

There are - at minimum - three hexes of importance in Bridge crossings:

First, the hex you must pass for moving onto the Bridge, second the Bridge hex itself, third the hex you must pass for exiting the Bridge.

Looking at the Bridge hex(es) first, these are - naturally - calling for Fire Lanes, that won't be much affected by SMOKE besides cancelling the -1 FFMO DRM. Especially crossing longer Bridges vs. a Fire Lane is extremely dangerous and SMOKE alone - unless barring LOS and thus enemy fire completely - might not be enough.

To address this, you can suppress the hex from where the Fire Lane originates during Prep Fire. If you can put down a full strength SMOKE in that Location this is a good start. Anything but a Fire Lane will now be severely impeded by a +4 DRM for firing out of SMOKE. Next, you can drive across an AFV and try to pop a sD, sP, sM or even Vehicular Smoke Grenade on the enemy side and stop. While this might trigger a FL to be laid in the current turn, at least from the upcoming Rout Phase that Vehicle will count as a Hindrance or might have even been turned into a (Burning) Wreck creating cover for your units scheduled to cross in your next turn onwards.

In your next turn, Infantry can follow up using Armored Assault (if appropriate AFV are available). So with the FL hex smoked, a hindrance created by one of your vehicles in the first turn and Armored Assault in your second, moving across into a FL has become much less dangerous and the original -1 FFMO, -1FFNAM hast lost its edge.

Oftentimes, the 'entry' and 'exit' hex of a Bridge are of greater concern, though. Of these, the 'exit' hex yet more than the 'entry' hex. In many cases, these hexes are Open Ground, i.e. they lack the TEM that fire vs. the Bridge Locations not along the road across it does enjoy. Units broken in the 'exit' hex on the enemy side of the bridge might be forced to rout back across it, losing time and having to start the most dangerous part of their journey again after rallying. Especially if 'entry' and 'exit' hexes are Open Ground, they can be much more vulnerable to enemy Defensive Fire compared to that exactly along the Bridge. The fire especially to the 'exit' hex might originate from a Location that is out of LOS from the friendly side of the Bridge, making it much harder if not impossible to suppress. In general, chances to harm the 'entry' and especially the 'exit' hex of a Bridge without beneficial TEM to the Attacker are often greater than along the Bridge. Thus, the Defender will likely attempt to infest these with RFP.

von Marwitz

Very nice analysis. Fire Lanes seem very bad news for crossing Infantry. Bore Sighted exit hex also a problem but the FL is very intimidating.

Any idea how many hexes the longest bridge is in ASL?

 

[STAVKA]

The problem was with the Terrain Chart, which listed a -1 TEM without linking it to OG.

Not a problem in 20 years, since the bridge counters gave us clear information of 0 TEM/LOS (Likewise in Basic Squad Leader since 1977).

Some of the posters of the linked thread were quite irritated about the ruling in J7.
The fact is that those protests led MMP to change the ruling.

From "angry outcry" to "irritated" , I see, but I do not agree that the "mob" changed MMP decision, instead MMP admitted their mistake, otherwise they knew that new bridge counters had to be printed, to a majority of players that ignored the ruling and would become a common tournament rule to ignore the errata.

And in friendly play with bridge(s) the issue would always be discussed beforehand and even more in tournament play,

 

[Eagle4ty]

Are there any scenarios where the bridge has been wired for demolition?

A96/ASL236 IN ROMMEL'S WAKE has the possibility of a bridge(s) already set for demolition and the possibility of a bridge(s) prepared for demolition before the enemy crossing units arrive on scene.