Home Rule to regulate skulking

[Jeff Waldon]

I shoot....shooting prone increases accuracy. Generally...

Reduces visibility to detect and engage targets.

 

[von Marwitz]

Ah, but the game is played with cardboard playing pieces and not WWII soldiers….

Which is good.

I would be seriously pissed if squads of WWII soldiers trampled all across my pristine geo-boards - or to take it further - have the tracks of Tiger tanks and some such leave unwanted creases on them...

von Marwitz

 

[von Marwitz]

In Advanced Cohort Leader only Barbarians and Heathens are allowed to skulk. The Romans have the honor of their Legion to uphold.

Try that with an Italian OoB in ASL...

The honor might stand just a tad longer than your squads going down, but still faster than you can utter "Veni, vedi, vici!"

von Marwitz

 

[Actionjick]

Try that with an Italian OoB in ASL...

The honor might stand just a tad longer than your squads going down, but still faster than you can utter "Veni, vedi, vici!"

von Marwitz

Alas that Roman spirit has faded over the centuries.

 

[Actionjick]

Try that with an Italian OoB in ASL...

The honor might stand just a tad longer than your squads going down, but still faster than you can utter "Veni, vedi, vici!"

von Marwitz

Try that with an Italian OoB in ASL...

The honor might stand just a tad longer than your squads going down, but still faster than you can utter "Veni, vedi, vici!"

von Marwitz

Leap, fellow soldiers, unless you wish to betray your eagle. I, for my part, will do my duty to the republic and to my general.

Attributed to the aquillifer of the 10th Legion to his reluctant comrades. They were still standing on the ships during Caesar's invasion of Britain in 55 B.C as he waded ashore alone, carrying their standard.

A few thousand years had perhaps blunted that spirit.

 

[AdrianE]

Skulking is realism: the defenders are repositioning from one firing position to another.

The game answer to skulking is to make sure you as the attacker can put fire onto the hex skulked into or its hexsides.
Also note that many newer boards have more sneaky LOS that make skulking harder.

The only changes I think should be made are those for internal consistency or simplicity. The rules for holes in the ground called "shellholes" should be the same as rules for holes in the ground called "foxholes". The rules for firing smoke at caves should be consistent with firing smoke at any other target. The rules for pointy sticks called "panjis" should be much simpler.

The Perry sez that prevents dummies from making fake rolls should be repealed.

 

[FrankH.]

Skulking: Its sole consequence is to make play longer and more tedious as the attacker waits patiently for the defender to do the obligatory shuffle that we all know is coming, but is acceptable because play testers used it too and therefore it’s “built in” to the scenario.

I would hope most people here would at least agree that "skulking" - moving away only to return to the same hex in the advance phase - is in practice nothing but that portion of a scenario wherein nothing of significance can happen except for the waste of time.

 

[Old Noob]

Do you put your head under a trip hammer, or do you pull it back in time?

 

[Sparafucil3]

I would hope most people here would at least agree that "skulking" - moving away only to return to the same hex in the advance phase - is in practice nothing but that portion of a scenario wherein nothing of significance can happen except for the waste of time.

I would be happy not to skulk if you would be happy not to shoot at them when I don't do it. Otherwise, it isn't a waste of time from my perspective. -- jim

 

[JimWhite]

Question for the anti-skulkers: Are you all saying you would never consider using...much less actually use...that tactic?

Now all I play is CGs and have rumbled in the rubble of Stalingrad many times...to the point where I have trademarked the RSD (Rotary Skulk Dispenser) [the name...not necessarily the tactic...] as the Russians in the factories. Why? Because I will not let my unconcealed front line units eat death star shots from the Germans during final fire. So I skulk them back into the dispenser...and then dispense now-concealed units in their place during the advance phase.

So if the Germans want to build massive death stars instead of using movement then I say great...if they are prepping they ain't moving...and I'll just minimize the amount of targets they will have. My long time opponent knows this and has adapted his tactics to fit mine...and I have adapted to his.

Opportunity Fire...movement...and bump scouting will force the Russians to make decisions.

 

[Old Noob]

The essence of ASL: Adapting your tactics to your opponent's style of play and him doing likewise.

 

[Jazz]

I would hope most people here would at least agree that "skulking" - moving away only to return to the same hex in the advance phase - is in practice nothing but that portion of a scenario wherein nothing of significance can happen except for the waste of time.

Sure looks like many here disagree with you.

It is a waste of time as long as the attacker lets it go on, and that is on him, not the tactic of skulking.

 

[Robin Reeve]

I would hope most people here would at least agree that "skulking" - moving away only to return to the same hex in the advance phase - is in practice nothing but that portion of a scenario wherein nothing of significance can happen except for the waste of time.

Skulking can buy some time for the defender - under that aspect, no time is lost.
But it only will be a problem vs. an attacker who thinks that firepower is the essence of the game, IOW quite an inexperimented gamer.
A competent attacker will most often maneuver to get around the defense and unhinge the apparently efficient skulking mechanic.

 

[Sparafucil3]

I would hope most people here would at least agree that "skulking" - moving away only to return to the same hex in the advance phase - is in practice nothing but that portion of a scenario wherein nothing of significance can happen except for the waste of time.

I am going to go a little further into this "waste of time" idea. The following are all things I consider a "waste of time". Your mileage may vary, but to me, good or better players will tend to agree with me:

1. Not knowing your TH modifiers and looking them up every time
2. Not knowing the columns of your IFT out to about 12 (at least) and having to look up the result every time
3. Not knowing the TEM's of terrain
4. Not having a plan
5. Watching my opponent agonize over what to do with their pieces for 30 minutes stuck in some paralysis by analysis loop (probably because they haven't made a plan)
6. Even worse, watching my opponent look up some "possible outcomes" on a table that says if X then Y happens Z percent of the time

I find that good or better players do all of this stuff in their heads. The play with pace because they instinctively know the odds (5) because the know the IFT (2) and the TH mods (1) and TEM. How many times a game are you rolling dice? If my opponents has to look that stuff up EVERY time they roll, I promise that's a much larger waste of time than me skulking all of my units out of the line of fire. In fact, if these things describe my opponent, I am actually speeding the game up by moving out of his LOF. Just sayin' -- jim (PS: I am not accusing you of these things. I am just commenting on this I find to be a waste of time)

 

[FrankH.]

To everyone who responded all I am saying here is, other than spending the time to follow the rules and SOP as they are, more or less tediously, the end result is more or less equivalent to just skipping over the Def. Fire, the Adv. Fire, the Rout, and the Adv. Phases, in that turn for the units that are, or would be, skulking....and for any units which might otherwise have interacted with them. Does that make sense?

 

[Jazz]

To everyone who responded all I am saying here is, other than spending the time to follow the rules and SOP as they are, more or less tediously, the end result is more or less equivalent to just skipping over the Def. Fire, the Adv. Fire, the Rout, and the Adv. Phases, in that turn for the units that are, or would be, skulking....and for any units which might otherwise have interacted with them. Does that make sense?

Does what make sense? The tactic or your explanation? I suppose I would have to say yes to both possible queries. It is a tactic that enables a competent defender do exactly as you describe and to force an attacker to do something about it.

Either way, it has no bearing on the relative merits of skulking.

 

[Sparafucil3]

To everyone who responded all I am saying here is, other than spending the time to follow the rules and SOP as they are, more or less tediously, the end result is more or less equivalent to just skipping over the Def. Fire, the Adv. Fire, the Rout, and the Adv. Phases, in that turn for the units that are, or would be, skulking....and for any units which might otherwise have interacted with them. Does that make sense?

Well if I am on my game you won't be able to skulk everything. If you can I am failing. So no, I don't want to skip over the Def Fire or Final Fire. I most certainly don't want to skip over AFPh either as that's my chance to break you before you skulk.

To be fair, I understand what you're saying and it makes sense in it's own context but within the context of the actual game of ASL, it doesn't work. IMO, such a change would make the game worse. Trust me when I say this, you play Pleva, Sidhu, Bendis, Piling, or any other top player you can name, your chances to cleanly skulk will be limited as the game goes on. Those guys maneuver with an eye to cutting off skulk and rout paths. Plan accordingly. -- jim

 

[Actionjick]

Lol I had some great pro skulking comments but you guys all beat me to the punch with much better responses!

Allowing your troops to be shot at sort of reminds me of the wwwbitd massed ranks firing volleys at one another. I understand that muskets weren't accurate but still there might have been other ways.

Actiondebbie was never a history buff but spending a lifetime with me she has seen a fair amount of documentaries on military history. She sometimes makes rather astute observations and being from outside the history circle I find her opinions interesting.

We were watching one documentary where the opposing sides were in ranks exchanging volleys. After a brief time she looks at me and says " that's stupid ". LMFAO!!

She also made the exact comment when we were watching a WWII documentary and they showed the proposed German super tank that dwarfed the Maus.

She was right.

The Ratte. Finally had time to check. She was quite right!!

 

[FrankH.]

To everyone who responded all I am saying here is, other than spending the time to follow the rules and SOP as they are, more or less tediously, the end result is more or less equivalent to just skipping over the Def. Fire, the Adv. Fire, the Rout, and the Adv. Phases, in that turn for the units that are, or would be, skulking....and for any units which might otherwise have interacted with them. Does that make sense?

Just to clarify I think I was suggesting here is an informal agreement, one player turn at a time, between players, not a change to the SOP.

 

[JimWhite]

Just to clarify I think I was suggesting here is an informal agreement, one player turn at a time, between players, not a change to the SOP.

While I agree that two players can play by whatever house rules they want...but I will skulk for several reasons and as mentioned up-thread the biggest reason being the death star final fire avoidance.

Now since I pretty much only play large CGs I am speaking from my experience with them...and while skulking is an effective tool on the defense...there are a couple ways it can work against you...and I can attest that it can and does happen.

1. You skulk back a section of your troops and then the nearby enemy sniper activates and it is quite possible that a unit you were going to move back into the front lines is now pinned or broken by an untimely SAN. Or worse...since you did skulk some units...that same SAN which would have hit them in their original location now ends up hitting your rally point leader. Whoops...now that leader is dead, wounded or broken.

2. Also...skulking and Stukas (or aircraft in general) don't always play well together...