Festung Budapest CG2 AAR

[rdw5150]

If you study the CG and read the analysis, you will see that any Soviet infantry purchase on the first day will not solve their fundamental problem, having to enter a restricted area with limited cover facing lots of enemy FP, and will, if anything, just add to their body count.

JR

Hello!

But yet even by Gary's own admission in the AAR he was barley hanging on at the end of the first scenario. If it goes another turn (what is it a 1-3 to end turn 6? so it could have easily gone another turn) or even two turns, (yes, unlikely) the Russians could have made a lot more headway.......

True the night attack could get brutal, but with Russians entering from off board and not under NO MOVE restraint, it could get interesting.

I am still intrigued by the CG, but might try to talk my buddy into CGIII.



Peace

Roger

 

[jrv]

But yet even by Gary's own admission in the AAR he was barley hanging on at the end of the first scenario. If it goes another turn (what is it a 1-3 to end turn 6? so it could have easily gone another turn) or even two turns, (yes, unlikely) the Russians could have made a lot more headway.......

True the night attack could get brutal, but with Russians entering from off board and not under NO MOVE restraint, it could get interesting.

If you're buying an Infantry Coy, you're not buying the 150 OBA. The Soviets have 10 CPP to make purchases with. The cheapest Infantry Coy is the SMG at 5 CPP. The 150mm with pre-reg and offboard observer is 6 CPP. Gary credits the 150mm OBA with being the difference.

The question is not whether more infantry would be good. The question is whether it would be worth giving up what you have to give up to get the infantry. A Soviet SMG Coy is not that useful in the first CG Day because the squads have really short range, and it has no long-range SW. The Axis will sit back and shoot at them from out of range and/or with tanks. Think Salerno, but you've forgotten to bring an invasion fleet.

JR

 

[sdennis]

Yeah, My brother and I started ours last night, only made it through 1.5 turns because he works nights and has W/Th off and I don't
But I did buy another 80+PRH+OBO and I went with the SMG Coy.

I'm thinking it is not going to work.

I have smoke all over the place from two OBAs but his mines and wire are starting to tear me up.
Trying to bust through a minefield I lost a T34 to a cellar and he killed another already. The third is bogged trying to punch a hole through the mines...

I've lost 4.5 squads already too (big MTR had rate/effects from hell)

I have killed 2.5 of his but I'm still essentially trapped. I am across the cogway already but not in force and sitting in minefields for the most part...

Tried to bangalore a wire and never got the chance, 1,1 in a building cut him down...

Oh and my other 628/demo went beserk and died hung up on some wire!

Not a good start...

We will likely only get to play once a week in the evenings so our feedback will be much slower than Gary/Paul!

 

[Gary Mei]

If it goes another turn (what is it a 1-3 to end turn 6? so it could have easily gone another turn) or even two turns, (yes, unlikely) the Russians could have made a lot more headway.......

Another hexrow or two woudn't have helped Paul in the slightest vs 21 excellent ROF 2 and 3 weapons raining death from above during the night assault. And he would still have only 15 or fewer squads onboard with 12 entering. The results would've been exactly the same even if day 1 had lasted longer.

 

[rdw5150]

Another hexrow or two wouldn't have helped Paul in the slightest vs 21 excellent ROF 2 and 3 weapons raining death from above during the night assault. And he would still have only 15 or fewer squads onboard with 12 entering. The results would've been exactly the same even if day 1 had lasted longer.

Hello!

OK good point:laugh:, I am just trying to be devil's advocate as my buddy wants to play this CG.

Reading Brett's analysis in the other thread it seems doable, but I am no where near the players you guys are.


Too bad he is going to duck you at ASLOK, or we would really find out:bite::devious:......

just kidding Brett!:laugh:

Seriously, thanks for all your posts and analysis of this CG. I have learned more about how to look at an ASL game by reading these posts than I have in a long time.

Now if I could only figure out if CGI is as tough on the Russians.

Peace

Roger

 

[Bret Hildebran]

It seems you guys had a ton of blazes due primarily to the 150 OBA. Does the night scenario play out a lot differently w/o the blazes? i.e. was the 150 a "double-edge sword" type purchase where it hurt the Axis on day 1, but hammered the Soviets on day 2 as they were lit up like Xmas trees? Not to mention they lost a ton of viable setup areas needed to spread out?

I'm still very skeptical of a night counterattack but if half of the buildings in the Russian setup area are blazing, that changes the equation just a little.

You guys playing it back switching sides?

 

[Paul S NJ]

Bret,

I offered Gary to play either side with some proposed changes but he'd prefer to try CG3.

I don't think the blazes made much difference except to restrict my setup area. I had terrible luck with IR rolls (got just one of six attempts which then drifted six hexes back over my own troops). In the 1.5 turns I only got one ineffective shot off with my 9-2 3xHMG stack then Gary wailed on it. Just too much firepower by the Axis firing from three sides. The russians can hold their own in a head to head fight, but not surrounded by well over a dozen killstacks/guns in level 2 firebases on 3 sides when they have little effective return firepower (BU tanks firing at stone buildings at 8 hexes need snakes).
Paul

 

[jrv]

(BU tanks firing at stone buildings at 8 hexes need snakes).

Soviet base TH = 8, +3 for stone building, +1 for BU. Night LV shouldn't apply unless you set your tanks up on a rooftop. Perhaps you meant fortified building? Or at a concealed tank?

JR

 

[Paul S NJ]

Just at range 7+

 

[Fort]

Paul's numbers are correct as he proposed (range 8, stone building, BU)....Soviets use Red TH#...at range 8 their base is 6...

 

[Bret Hildebran]

Restricting setup to force stacking is a pretty big deal IMO. Doesn't sound like you were constantly illuminated from the flames though which was my other concern. Although terrible luck on illumination can be a game changer at night.

In looking at your first date, the inability to expand the Russian borders on the West flank likely hurt a lot too. It's not easy, but once the Russkie gets a breach beyond the rail line, they can really make some hay on that West flank greatly expanding the entry area. Not buying a 3rd infantry company limits the ability to do that though as you just don't have enough warm bodies to attack on both flanks.

Overall I prefer CG III to II, but the open in CG II is quite the interesting challenge...

 

[Gary Mei]

It seems you guys had a ton of blazes due primarily to the 150 OBA. Does the night scenario play out a lot differently w/o the blazes? i.e. was the 150 a "double-edge sword" type purchase where it hurt the Axis on day 1, but hammered the Soviets on day 2 as they were lit up like Xmas trees? Not to mention they lost a ton of viable setup areas needed to spread out?

I'm still very skeptical of a night counterattack but if half of the buildings in the Russian setup area are blazing, that changes the equation just a little.

You guys playing it back switching sides?

Bret, the blazes certainly helped me. It didn't really matter as far as the CG goes. Let's say I declare a day attack instead. The results might have been even worse for Paul. With his purchase of HW pltn and SMG coy, he has no points left for FPP. His guns can't be emplaced in concealment terrain and must setup onboard under concealment. His killstack will be blindingly obvious as with only 15 squads any stack of 7 counters beneath a ? would be very suspicious. Everyone else is in +2 to +3 TEM with no way to shoot back as most of his squads had 2 range.

I predict turn 1 I would smoke his killstack with one of my 4 mtrs and then start exterminating his gun crews one at a time. Marinate over 6 or so turns and eventually I can turn my attention to his killstack and squads. I had a stack with 9-1/2hmg/2mmg (24 fp), 8-1/2hmg/2mmg (24 fp), 8-1/2hmg/mmg (16 fp), 4 81 mtrs, 3 75Ls, and 3 75*s. If one of my guns shoots at his guns, I need 5 to start (7 base, +2 for emplaced) and he needs 2 to start (6 base, +3 stone building, +1 small size) if he shoots me.

How long do you think he would have lasted in a day scenario short of not setting up onboard as well?

 

[jrv]

Paul's numbers are correct as he proposed (range 8, stone building, BU)....Soviets use Red TH#...at range 8 their base is 6...

Sorry, I mistakenly thought he was firing at a vehicle. On the Infantry Target Type he is correct.

JR

 

[=FC=Gorgon]

Hello!

I do not know if you have seen them (probably but you never know), but the following threads got some talk about purchases:

Check out this thread where people are talking about the FB CG 2 at length:

http://forums.gamesquad.com/showthread.php?105736-Festung-Budapest-Strategy

Also, here is another thread someone started on the purchase strategy (for CGI):

http://forums.gamesquad.com/showthread.php?105714-Best-initial-FB-CG1-purchases-ideas

Thanks Roger, I was not aware of that (very long) thread. I will check it out. I still have yet to open up FB and study it. Thanks again for the AARs. Any bit of information helps.

MikeS