East Front - maps, overlays, scenarios

[DonWPetros]

I like overlays. I also like East Front maps and scenarios.

I've recently completed 2 half-sheets of overlays (one below) that work well with both East Front scenarios as well as with other ASL applications.

This one below includes: Grain / Hill mass / Orchard / and 3 OLs designed to cover those pesky Woods board edges.

The plan: Include these 2 OL sheets with 2 new, East Front theme geoboards (finished), along with several East Front scenarios (finished with Kursk focus) - submit to MMP for release in the future.

Feedback - welcome.

 

[FrankH.]

Now that TwoTR has disrupted our dinners by introducing the concept of large, and very large overlays, we might as well see an overlay that covers up the board edge woods and roads of two side-by-side standard geoboards, while introducing a gully stretching from one corner of one of the boards to the opposite corner (or to multiple corners), plus tributary gullies. And/or similar crazy ideas: an overlay of a half-board pond or lake depicting part of a city park, and/or one that connects to a river or stream at the board edges; an overlay (or a parallel board?) depicting an actual sewer (E.g., Stalingrad), and/or underground tunnel (e.g., at Remagen), and/or commuter subway (E.g., Berlin and elsewhere) network, and/or a network of caves, requiring new rules for subterranean vs. subteranean combat; and overlays depicting actual wrecks (?), rubble, debris, and shellholes, for mid and late war city fights. (Some of these overlays could be HASL-based.)

 

[DonWPetros]

I'm sure you jest. As you can see, my idea is to go smaller and easier!

 

[FrankH.]

Opps. I did not mean to come across quite this irreverent. I am (mostly) serious about these ideas - but that does not mean they have to be taken seriously. My ideas are meant to be a thought experiment - though they are not necessarily directed specifically at you, or at your immediate projects.

In great measure I am certainly reacting to the developments coming with DMZ: St. Mere Eglise, and with Twilight of the Reich - the two most recently published projects (plus to a lesser extent the new developments in the Winter Offensive Bonus Pack 15). Though admittedly I am not sure all the reviews are yet in on these projects, and with these developments.

 

[william.stoppel]

I like overlays. I also like East Front maps and scenarios.

I've recently completed 2 half-sheets of overlays (one below) that work well with both East Front scenarios as well as with other ASL applications.

This one below includes: Grain / Hill mass / Orchard / and 3 OLs designed to cover those pesky Woods board edges.

The plan: Include these 2 OL sheets with 2 new, East Front theme geoboards (finished), along with several East Front scenarios (finished with Kursk focus) - submit to MMP for release in the future.

Feedback - welcome.

View attachment 28299

I think the overlays look great. Love the idea of an outlay to cover up the annoying board edge woods hexes.

 

[DonWPetros]

Here is the 2nd Overlay sheet to go with the 2 new East Front geoboards.
Included:

- Long ridge
-small group of wooden buildings/grain

• 2 Graveyards (hedge surrounded)
• 5 Balkas

-1 Road extension (to use on boards 61, 69, 70)

 

[FrankH.]

Here is the 2nd Overlay sheet to go with the 2 new East Front geoboards.
Included:

- Long ridge
-small group of wooden buildings/grain

• 2 Graveyards (hedge surrounded)
• 5 Balkas

-1 Road extension (to use on boards 61, 69, 70)

View attachment 28313

I don't see any overlays that can cover up the woods pattern along the side of the geoboards, though you mentioned this in your opening post. The overlays in that post may only be used to cover the woods pattern at the end of the geoboards.

This one ridge overlay might be the only one that could be used to cover (part, i.e., half) of a side board woods pattern.

I would suggest an investigation into some (a few, but probably several) overlays, of one hex in width - or one, two, one, etc. hexes in width - in both cases following an alternative hex row pattern, by exactly seven hexes in length, mostly containing no LOS obstacles. Overlays like this could be used to cover up part or all of the side board edge woods pattern - of two boards lengthwise connected.

Since there will be road connections (removed by the overlay), it might be that these one or two hexes now covering up a road hex contain terrain plausible for a road termination. This might be a single (or a double) hex depiction containing depression, gully, brush, huts or small buildings, pond, orchard, grain, graveyard, level 1 hill, and/or crag and/or a bridge? And/or road-negating shellholes or debris or rubble? All these, plus optionally wall and/or hedge hexsides alongside the now the removed - or still retained (?) - road - and/or nearby.

[Similar overlays could be created for the lengthwise of Deluxe (not your thing, I think) boards. These would be exactly five hexes in length.]

 

[chris_olden]

@DonWPetros I can see BK4 and BK6 being used in the scenario I sent you today…

 

[Fort]

Very nice!

 

[DonWPetros]

I don't see any overlays that can cover up the woods pattern along the side of the geoboards, though you mentioned this in your opening post. The overlays in that post may only be used to cover the woods pattern at the end of the geoboards.

Look more closely at the topmost picture. 3 of those Overlays cover the 3 Woods hexes along the sides.

 

[DVexile]

Look more closely at the topmost picture. 3 of those Overlays cover the 3 Woods hexes along the sides.

Maybe the confusion is that there are four woods hexes on the sides. But since a road runs between the outermost pair I see your overlays are aiming to cover the three inner woods hexes and not interfere with the road map edge hex or its connecting network. A single hex overlay could deal with the fourth woods hex on the other side of the road if desired. Seems sensible to me!

Look interesting! Also, I feel like overlays are much less of a turn off for VASL players and so new overlays and less hesitancy for designers to use them might be reasonable.

 

[FrankH.]

Look more closely at the topmost picture. 3 of those Overlays cover the 3 Woods hexes along the sides.

Yes, but see my response to Dvexile below.

 

[FrankH.]

Maybe the confusion is that there are four woods hexes on the sides. But since a road runs between the outermost pair I see your overlays are aiming to cover the three inner woods hexes and not interfere with the road map edge hex or its connecting network. A single hex overlay could deal with the fourth woods hex on the other side of the road if desired. Seems sensible to me!

Thanks much for seeing this. This is exactly the point I am trying to make.

 

[Tooz]

The depression overlays are useful tools for scenario designers when trying to create scenarios where "Balkhs" or "Balkhas" were prevalent. Research had shown that many of these depressions were huge and deep (cliff or steep hills for ASL elevation changes?), where caves lined the walls of many of these depressions. So, perhaps we can have larger depression overlays. Kevin Meyer and myself have been suggested by Pete Shelling to design scenarios for MMP WO 2025 and ASLOK 2024 which will feature these maps and overlays. These can also just depict regular valleys. We have many options. ASL players familiar with my work know that my focus from here on out is to design something new, something different. We have too many scenarios and too many of those are similar in themes. This is our challenge and we hope to prove successful.

 

[von Marwitz]

The depression overlays are useful tools for scenario designers when trying to create scenarios where "Balkhs" or "Balkhas" were prevalent. Research had shown that many of these depressions were huge and deep (cliff or steep hills for ASL elevation changes?), where caves lined the walls of many of these depressions. So, perhaps we can have larger depression overlays. Kevin Meyer and myself have been suggested by Pete Shelling to design scenarios for MMP WO 2025 and ASLOK 2024 which will feature these maps and overlays. These can also just depict regular valleys. We have many options. ASL players familiar with my work know that my focus from here on out is to design something new, something different. We have too many scenarios and too many of those are similar in themes. This is our challenge and we hope to prove successful.

I remember that there was a discussion some time ago about Steppe Terrain and Balkas.
Indeed, larger overlays for use with desert boards to reflect Balkas were among the proposals. It was also stated, that Gullies or Dry Streams are unfit to reflect anything but a small Balka but for sure not the larger ones which you have mentioned.

Steppe Terrain with large Balka overlays using a large playing area, say 3 full desert boards or maybe even 4 could enable a new set of tactical challenges so far not reflected in ASL despite having been encountered historically pretty often.

von Marwitz

 

[DonWPetros]

The depression overlays are useful tools for scenario designers when trying to create scenarios where "Balkhs" or "Balkhas" were prevalent. Research had shown that many of these depressions were huge and deep (cliff or steep hills for ASL elevation changes?), where caves lined the walls of many of these depressions. So, perhaps we can have larger depression overlays. Kevin Meyer and myself have been suggested by Pete Shelling to design scenarios for MMP WO 2025 and ASLOK 2024 which will feature these maps and overlays. These can also just depict regular valleys. We have many options. ASL players familiar with my work know that my focus from here on out is to design something new, something different. We have too many scenarios and too many of those are similar in themes. This is our challenge and we hope to prove successful.

Brian - thanks, and I look forward to your, Kevin's and Pete's work. Glad to help. If you have any cool overlay suggestions - fire away. Agree that we need some new ideas here!
(if you send me a PM, I can send a copy of the overlays your way. I think Kevin and Pete have the new maps)

 

[DonWPetros]

I remember that there was a discussion some time ago about Steppe Terrain and Balkas.
Indeed, larger overlays for use with desert boards to reflect Balkas were among the proposals. It was also stated, that Gullies or Dry Streams are unfit to reflect anything but a small Balka but for sure not the larger ones which you have mentioned.

Steppe Terrain with large Balka overlays using a large playing area, say 3 full desert boards or maybe even 4 could enable a new set of tactical challenges so far not reflected in ASL despite having been encountered historically pretty often. von Marwitz

Agreed that Balkas will add some new spice to our terrain - that's why the above Overlays. That said, the matter of 'scale' is important in my mind when it comes to non-HASL projects like the one I've been working on recently. While realistically the East Front battlefields were characterized by sprawling fields, balkas, hills, etc., - attempting to contain that within our ASL geoboards is a bit of a stretch. For the non-HASL projects, I try to confine the scale of the terrain (geoboard and OL) as well as the scenario OBs in order for them to be accessible and most of all - practical and playable in one sitting. I assume other guys prefer this kind of approach for non-HASLs.

 

[von Marwitz]

For the non-HASL projects, I try to confine the scale of the terrain (geoboard and OL) as well as the scenario OBs in order for them to be accessible and most of all - practical and playable in one sitting. I assume other guys prefer this kind of approach for non-HASLs.

This is certainly a challenge if you deal with wide swaths of open terrain as encountered in the desert or in the steppe.

Its primary characteristic is its open terrain. Anything not in the (few) Locations that provide cover will be vulnerable at long ranges. This is the very characteristic and challenge of the combat situation.

To cover a lot open ground (with a balka or two) somewhere, the number of MF of the Infantry imposes "natural" limits to the speed in which this can be done. So, very likely, it might prove very difficult to create a 5 Turn scenario in which steppe is really relevant if understood as a wide swath of open ground. The scenario will likely need 7 or 8 turns in any case, if you want "Steppe Feeling".

This conflicts, however, if you want a scenario which takes not much time:
If you reduce the number of units, so that a 7 or 8 Turn scenario still plays fast, this means that the design will become very "brittle". Good luck or bad luck for some few units will make it or break it.

Thus, you need not only 7 or 8 Turns for the "Steppe Feeling". You will also need quite a number of units, so that good luck and bad luck can even out for a "reliably" balanced scenario design.

von Marwitz

 

[DonWPetros]

This is certainly a challenge if you deal with wide swaths of open terrain as encountered in the desert or in the steppe.
Its primary characteristic is its open terrain. Anything not in the (few) Locations that provide cover will be vulnerable at long ranges. This is the very characteristic and challenge of the combat situation.

This is where the 'real world' meets 'ASL world'. I agree that to recreate an actual rural, East Front battle, you'd need more boards, larger OBs, etc. The gist of my comments above say that in order to prepare such an ASL battle that is practical in terms of time and space for most guys, keeping it as small and tight as possible seems to be the way to go. Personally, I don't have a 4'x8' table or more than about 6 hours to play a typical ASL scenario (and imagine others are in the same boat) but I do want to be able to play some rural East Front scenarios using the best possible set of boards (open and relatively devoid of too much terrain) and not using mind-numbing numbers of counters. One of the boards that I just finished is very open, and designed to accommodate some East Front like overlays (above). I do think you'd like them if you saw them.

 

[chris_olden]

@DonWPetros do you have an SSR for cornfields worked out?