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[L Bunny Niyori]

Croix De Guerre is surely worth a heck more than 10 bucks as a PDF. I am paying for the design and the work, not the cardboard.

Well inasmuch as the 'cardboard' is the only portion that actually has to be produced...
But perhaps you should make the trip to DrivthruRPG which is to say Wargamer Vault where you can witness a lot of very nice wargame products.
The ASL manual is priced at 60 bucks. That's a bit steep, but it is at least the entire product line and updated routinely.
The entire Combat Leader series as a bundle is 70 bucks. On sale at this moment. It's like one step down as you play just one squad as single soldier counters. Very nice game, I have the whole series.
Fastplay Wargames have a few titles out there. 10 bucks for a game is ok.
Mike Lambo has some nice solo titles out there for 20 bucks. I have a few of his designs.
Flying Pig Games has some titles on sale there. 25 bucks for a Kursk design.
Mark H Walker has some designs there as well. Platoon Commander Series Korea 10 bucks.
Tank Commander series 20 bucks a game.
Minden Games sells there.

So I have more than adequately proven, that digital sales are possible. And several names well known to wargaming are also there.
10 bucks for Croix de Guerre, ok maybe 20 bucks. Maybe even 30. NOT necessary to force it as 200 though.

Additionally, I have seen that POD (print on demand) is more than up to the challenge.
I don't know who MMP uses for printing, but in my view, they are not up to it. So why is it these other guys are.
One of my first encounters with POD was getting a new copy of the Rules Cyclopedia back in 2022. Hardcover, colour, exactly identical to the original. Essentially the equal of a hardcover bound ASL manual. for 30 bucks. Rules Cyclopedia hasn't been 'current' since the 80s. So it's not like a major demand. And I didn't need to wait on X pre orders. I just wanted 1 copy made. So they could print out the ASL manual as a colour hardcover for 30 bucks 'casually). So yes, I CAN say that MMP is asking too much for a 40 year old game manual.

We ASL fans are being 'milked' as much as the D&D crowd is being 'milked'. And it doesn't matter if the secondary is called MMP or WitC, it's Hasbro that is the problem in the end likely. And I dare say no one can fathom why. But it IS known, that Hasbro has NO interest in our hobby, only our money.

 

[Robin Reeve]

We ASL fans are being 'milked' as much as the D&D crowd is being 'milked'.

You are free to stop buying ASL.
Let grown up people who have the means to afford purchasing the game have fun.
Your rant is over the top and quite debatable on many points.
You are just one of the numerous wanabee economists who think they can teach MMP develop a better business.
Down the line, this hobby is cheap compared with so many others.
If you don't like it, move on, get a life.
Sowing negativity won't do you any good.

 

[Ric of The LBC]

Down the line, this hobby is cheap compared with so many others.

I tell my wife "ASL is cheaper than hookers and blow"

 

[daniel zucker]

I tell my wife "ASL is cheaper than hookers and blow"

I tell my wife that ASL isn't as mush fun as hookers and blow.
She just rolls her eyes and tells me to "keep it in your pants" and buy another module , or journal.

P.S. it's my wallet that she wants me to keep in my pants.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

Well inasmuch as the 'cardboard' is the only portion that actually has to be produced...
But perhaps you should make the trip to DrivthruRPG which is to say Wargamer Vault where you can witness a lot of very nice wargame products.
The ASL manual is priced at 60 bucks. That's a bit steep, but it is at least the entire product line and updated routinely.
The entire Combat Leader series as a bundle is 70 bucks. On sale at this moment. It's like one step down as you play just one squad as single soldier counters. Very nice game, I have the whole series.
Fastplay Wargames have a few titles out there. 10 bucks for a game is ok.
Mike Lambo has some nice solo titles out there for 20 bucks. I have a few of his designs.
Flying Pig Games has some titles on sale there. 25 bucks for a Kursk design.
Mark H Walker has some designs there as well. Platoon Commander Series Korea 10 bucks.
Tank Commander series 20 bucks a game.
Minden Games sells there.

So I have more than adequately proven, that digital sales are possible. And several names well known to wargaming are also there.
10 bucks for Croix de Guerre, ok maybe 20 bucks. Maybe even 30. NOT necessary to force it as 200 though.

Additionally, I have seen that POD (print on demand) is more than up to the challenge.
I don't know who MMP uses for printing, but in my view, they are not up to it. So why is it these other guys are.
One of my first encounters with POD was getting a new copy of the Rules Cyclopedia back in 2022. Hardcover, colour, exactly identical to the original. Essentially the equal of a hardcover bound ASL manual. for 30 bucks. Rules Cyclopedia hasn't been 'current' since the 80s. So it's not like a major demand. And I didn't need to wait on X pre orders. I just wanted 1 copy made. So they could print out the ASL manual as a colour hardcover for 30 bucks 'casually). So yes, I CAN say that MMP is asking too much for a 40 year old game manual.

We ASL fans are being 'milked' as much as the D&D crowd is being 'milked'. And it doesn't matter if the secondary is called MMP or WitC, it's Hasbro that is the problem in the end likely. And I dare say no one can fathom why. But it IS known, that Hasbro has NO interest in our hobby, only our money.

Here’s the thing.

1. HASBRO or any viable corporations, is not built as a hobby. It’s built as a business. Get that straight. (Recommended reading : Adam Smith)

2. As cheap as anything on DriveThruRPG, I haven’t deemed anything in there worth my $10. Whereas I deemed any ASL worth the full price I paid. No, no one forced me to buy anything I don’t want to, as much as how you seemed to be forced at gunpoint.

3. Here’s the kicker: anyone who knows me knows I only play on VASL. IE I have no real use for all the cardboard. Yet I kept purchasing all the ASL modules because the huge amount effort put in by the community is worth the money I paid. (First hand experience as a playtester and a proofer.)

I can no longer afford buying every ASL module but that’s on me. I don’t think badly of ASL when they don’t price it at $10 just as much as I don’t resent any other top tier products for the same. ASL as a system has proved the worth of its design internationally thru the years.

So yeah, there are cheap crap everywhere. ASL is not one of them, as thousands of fellow players around the world seem to agree.

Including yourself for that matter: This a quote from you “ Man I have a lot of cool valuable stuff here. Worth a fortune if anyone can figure out how to sell when I'm gone.“

 

[L Bunny Niyori]

You are free to stop buying ASL.
Let grown up people who have the means to afford purchasing the game have fun.
Your rant is over the top and quite debatable on many points.
You are just one of the numerous wanabee economists who think they can teach MMP develop a better business.
Down the line, this hobby is cheap compared with so many others.
If you don't like it, move on, get a life.
Sowing negativity won't do you any good.

Quite the fan girl ain't ya

You are free to stop buying ASL too, what's the point of saying something so helpful like that?
Implying I'm immature, did that make you feel good?
Your rebutal is lame and underwhelming.
I have run a business, how about you?
I wouldn't mind some examples.
Again with the insults.
Sure seems to sink your boat though eh. You sure are a positive element ain't you.

Swiss Moron? Hey you said it not me.

 

[L Bunny Niyori]

Here’s the thing.

1. HASBRO or any viable corporations, is not built as a hobby. It’s built as a business. Get that straight. (Recommended reading : Adam Smith)

2. As cheap as anything on DriveThruRPG, I haven’t deemed anything in there worth my $10. Whereas I deemed any ASL worth the full price I paid. No, no one forced me to buy anything I don’t want to, as much as how you seemed to be forced at gunpoint.

3. Here’s the kicker: anyone who knows me knows I only play on VASL. IE I have no real use for all the cardboard. Yet I kept purchasing all the ASL modules because the huge amount effort put in by the community is worth the money I paid. (First hand experience as a playtester and a proofer.)

I can no longer afford buying every ASL module but that’s on me. I don’t think badly of ASL when they don’t price it at $10 just as much as I don’t resent any other top tier products for the same. ASL as a system has proved the worth of its design internationally thru the years.

So yeah, there are cheap crap everywhere. ASL is not one of them, as thousands of fellow players around the world seem to agree.

Including yourself for that matter: This a quote from you “ Man I have a lot of cool valuable stuff here. Worth a fortune if anyone can figure out how to sell when I'm gone.“

1. as I mentioned above I have run a business. Have you?
2. matter of opinion. No one forced me to pay for anything either.
3. I never buy what I don't need. When I am feeling charitable, I give it to a local youth sports team. As you said, MMP is a business, not a charity.

ASL has convinced a lot of people to spend a lot of money. I also never understand the value of a Picasso.
I should mention, that in the gaming world, I never meet anyone that has heard of ASL, MMP, Avalon Hill.

And you wonderful gents are not helping much.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Quite the fan girl ain't ya
...
Swiss Moron? Hey you said it not me.

I am not a girl - why include gender in your argumentation?
Do you have problems with peoples' genders?
I don't know yours and don't care the least about it, as it has no bearing upon the present discussion.

As for my title, you know nothing of its origin, so it will remain a mystery to you - it is an old, insider joke.
I can certainly be called a moron in a serious way, as you are doing it. Your call, I don't care.

Some elements your analysis lacks are: inflation between 1980 and nowadays ; the fact that MMP produces in the USA rather than in China ; the exploding costs of raw materials, and of cardboard and paper; the license to pay to Hasbro; the small print runs which don't allow to reduce margins or to ventilate salaries on mass produced stuff; the fact that about all game producers have been increasing their prices.
And, btw, I am chairman of a publishing house – besides books, we even published a coop game.
But I don't have means to know better about MMP's business model as you pretend you do.

 

[Vinnie]

Spoke to someone who bought a print your own wargame at 25 quid. By the yime he'd paid for good quality printing of components, the total price was close to 90 pounds.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

1. as I mentioned above I have run a business. Have you?
2. matter of opinion. No one forced me to pay for anything either.
3. I never buy what I don't need. When I am feeling charitable, I give it to a local youth sports team. As you said, MMP is a business, not a charity.

ASL has convinced a lot of people to spend a lot of money. I also never understand the value of a Picasso.
I should mention, that in the gaming world, I never meet anyone that has heard of ASL, MMP, Avalon Hill.

And you wonderful gents are not helping much.

1. Yup. Surprised that you have too. I imagine you weren’t selling commodities? Cause your mind seems to be stuck on cost based pricing.
2. Phew! Good!! No one forced you to buy anything huh? Concerned 'cause you mentioned you were forced. Direct quote from you “ Forcing me to buy 2nd 3rd and further editions for 2 and 3 times the price the original isn't doing me a lot of favours.”
3. Never heard of anyone that has heard of ASL, MMP? What do you think we do here all day?

PS BTW, having 'run a business' doesn't qualify you (or I) for anything. I mean, my kid ran a tshirt business when she's 15. Doesn't qualify her as a consultant to MMP's business model anymore than you or I really.

 

[L Bunny Niyori]

I am not a girl - why include gender in your argumentation?
Do you have problems with peoples' genders?
I don't know yours and don't care the least about it, as it has no bearing upon the present discussion.

As for my title, you know nothing of its origin, so it will remain a mystery to you - it is an old, insider joke.
I can certainly be called a moron in a serious way, as you are doing it. Your call, I don't care.

Some elements your analysis lacks are: inflation between 1980 and nowadays ; the fact that MMP produces in the USA rather than in China ; the exploding costs of raw materials, and of cardboard and paper; the license to pay to Hasbro; the small print runs which don't allow to reduce margins or to ventilate salaries on mass produced stuff; the fact that about all game producers have been increasing their prices.
And, btw, I am chairman of a publishing house – besides books, we even published a coop game.
But I don't have means to know better about MMP's business model as you pretend you do.

You are not a girl, well duh, I don't think anyone thinks you are. That's why I said it, to be annoying. Sort of like you lack of inability to deal with critique of your precious game.
Do I have problems with people's genders? [insert howling laughter here] That's so insanely funny.
But it's like your title, you really don't know me I guess.
I can really be a bitch, but don't worry I don't mind being called it either.
So it's established, we have a moron arguing with a bitch

Inflation, really, you are actually going there?
Curious, why hasn't inflation happened to the entire line of products sold on DrivThruRPG then?
They must know something.
I don't know MMPs business model either. But you claiming I do, is kinda petulant.

Are you married? I can't picture it.

 

[L Bunny Niyori]

Would someone please tell me to shut up, f*** off and be done with it.

The fake welcome is getting a bit annoying.

Maybe it's because I've played so many hundreds of other wargames, that I realize there is more to life than ASL that is the issue.

I have no plans to not play Squad Leader and ASL. But trying to chat with you guys, isn't exactly rewarding.

 

[Jazz]

Would someone please tell me to shut up, fuck off and be done with it.

Shut up and f&*k off....so the naughty word police don't come down on me....

. But trying to chat with you guys, isn't exactly rewarding.

The feeling is mutual.

 

[olli]

Where is the admin when you need them……….

 

[Actionjick]

Where is the admin when you need them……….

Participating.

 

[Actionjick]

Participating.

No offense meant to the Moderators.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Participating.

I am only a Moderator.
And of course, I won't act when I am personally involved.

 

[Actionjick]

I am only a Moderator.
And of course, I won't act when I am personally involved.

How a Gentleman acts.

 

[Jazz]

I am only a Moderator.

A mere cog in the machine.....

 

[Robin Reeve]

A mere cog in the machine.....